From Meta to Consulting: An Evolution in L&D

Rachel Cossar: Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of Conversations in the Future of Work. I am your host, Rachel Cossar, and I’m really excited to take a look at, you know, some of these concepts that we may learn at larger companies and then really learn about ourselves if we strike out on our own, with our guest today, Tracy Bazelli. So, Tracy, welcome. Thank you. Thanks, Rachel. Thanks for having me.

Tracy Bizelli: My first podcast. Is it really? Yeah.

Rachel Cossar: I’m very excited. Wow. Wow. We’re excited to have you. Would you mind sharing a little bit about your background and, you know, what you’re up to these days? Yeah. Yeah.

Tracy Bizelli: I have been, in the corporate l and d space for a very long time. I won’t give you the number of years, but I’ve been super fortunate to work at, at Google and most recently Meta. And now I kind of ventured out on my own. I’ve been doing some consulting work, for the last year or so, which has been really interesting. So, yeah, I’ve had a really, just fortunate to have lots of great experiences throughout my career. So hopefully, I can share some stuff with you. Yeah. Awesome. I mean, I think it’s, like I said at the outset.

Rachel Cossar: Right? Very different worlds to be navigating. Yeah.

Tracy Bizelli: Very, very different. It’s been a a really interesting experience to be kind of on the other side. I have you know, like, a lot of people worked with a lot of great vendors, so it’s just been fun to be on the other side. Totally.

Rachel Cossar: So on that note, are there any lessons that you learned from your, you know, time in massive, like, some of the world’s biggest corporations that have continued to support and guide you through your now more independent role? Yeah.

Tracy Bizelli: You know, I think there’s been a lot, of things for me to remember, or that I took with me. And some of it was just to kind of go back almost, like, go back to the basics. Right? When I when I approach and do work with people, you know, communication is key, making sure, you have a very structured approach to the things that you’re gonna do when everybody’s on in lockstep on the goals. I think it’s very important that, you know, you understand the culture and the company and how they like to operate and things like that. And those are all things I think you learn, in big corporate settings like that. So those have carried over for sure. And then, you know, some of it, like, understanding how, you know, different organizations within a company structure kind of operate and link together. That part has been really, really helpful. It’s it kind of enables you to go into a company and kinda quickly see how things connect, which has been really great. So those are some of the big ones that I think I brought with me for sure. Yeah.

Rachel Cossar: I it’s interesting because I feel like working at a larger organization, especially if that organization is very innovative company like Google or Meta. Right? Like Mhmm. Did you find that working on your team and collaborating with other teams was similar in a way to the work you’re doing now, but just independently? Like, was there a lot of that entrepreneurialism within your your experience at these larger companies? I think so.

Tracy Bizelli: You know, there’s a lot of things where, it isn’t there there isn’t like a prescription there. Right? So you are the people generating the ideas. You are the people having to go sell and, you know, get connected with the resources that can kind of help you. So I think that spirit is kind of always there, which can be really challenging. Right? If you, if if for some reason, maybe you don’t have the background or the understanding of how to go do that, those can be barriers for a lot of folks, but Mhmm. That, you know, if you can dig in and you question and you challenge and you, you know, partner in a good way, those things can have just really, really great results. You can do really great things. Mhmm. But it can be difficult. Yeah.

Rachel Cossar: I it’s interesting because we work, with a a number of very small companies, and then we work with, like, massive companies. And I will say it’s a headache working with the larger companies. Yeah.

Tracy Bizelli: That, I mean, that that is a a drawback of some sorts, you know, like, navigating all of that and knowing, you know, you may reach out to one resource and, you know, you really need them to partner with you, but, you know, they’ve also got how many other people knocking on their door. Mhmm. So the resource capacity constraints can be difficult and how you prioritize work and things like that can be can just be a challenge of the process, you know, all of that stuff. A lot for good reason. Right? But it does, smaller companies, you can move really fast. Yeah.

Rachel Cossar: Still stay within the the safe guidelines or guardrails, but you can move much faster. There’s less people. There’s less, you know, red tape, all the things. So, yeah, I hear you. So in an ideal world, do you think that, like, who do you think I’m gonna switch this this question up a little bit. Like, who do you think has more to learn from the other? It’s funny.

Tracy Bizelli: To think I would the thing I would go back to is what I started, I said a little bit earlier. It’s that, companies remembering the importance of the grounding and the process. Right? Yeah. Like, I think you get moving so fast that you forget about the things that actually trip you up down the road. Like, right, if decision making isn’t super clear, if the goal isn’t super clear, right, if we haven’t clarified the roles, like, even on a project team Yeah. Those are the things that, like, lead to all kinds of problems that just explode. So I feel like the consultant world, like, they know how to go in and structure that really well and ask the question. Right. You know? But you get moving so fast that you just drop those things to the side and, yeah, it leads to all kinds of problems. So it is really important, I think, you know, to take the time to structure things properly and leaders need to check-in and make sure things are staying on track. Sometimes it’s like, okay. It’s off and running. Right? And you kinda let it go and forget about it because it’ll be fine. No. You gotta keep checking in. Those are the things that I would say big corporations need to kinda, remember the one zero one is the important stuff. Yeah.

Rachel Cossar: That’s so interesting because I would imagine that that would be a similar lesson for smaller companies because I think Yeah.

Tracy Bizelli: When you’re smaller, there are fewer stakeholders.

Rachel Cossar: You know, your lines of communication are a little more casual and a little more immediate and a little less process oriented. Like, I think about virtual sapiens. You know, we’ve recently added some team members, and I’m like, oh, like, we do but we’re, like, tiny. We’re, like, six people. So even with six people, I’m like, that that communication and the process and making sure that, expectations are very clearly set, needs to happen as well. And I think that that can be something that is hard for smaller companies to maybe realize is a reality as soon as there’s maybe more than, like, two people. Yeah. And you’re you’re right. It’s important no matter what.

Tracy Bizelli: And I think it’s more the challenge is probably different for smaller companies. Right? Because you just the capacity to get through all those things may not be there. So it’s a challenge in a different way. But you’re right. It’s it’s important no matter the size. No matter. Yeah.

Rachel Cossar: Are there, like do you have any examples of when something was either done really well or when something some unfortunate, like, consequence kind of spiraled out of control because this mechanism of communication process wasn’t in place? Yeah.

Tracy Bizelli: Maybe, like, kinda like a a an example from, some past roles. I think we there was an example of, like, trying to enact some change across the team and, implement, like, a different type of service model, to support, like, a larger learning team. Right? Maybe you have, like, some type of central operations, if you will. Like, changing that the way that, that team was kind of operating. I think forgetting, the communication, the, the roles, the clarity around who was gonna be doing what, how, we wanted things to flow differently. There was just a breakdown in, how that was communicated out to the broader team and, you know, what the expectations were to move and operate differently. And unfortunately, you know, you may think you’re doing it right, but where it kinda slides is down and through the team. And what you start to see is, like, tensions coming up between Yeah. Maybe individuals or two different teams because, you know, they both might feel like, it’s their role to execute or to be responsible for or what have you. And so that’s where, at least, I have seen things start to bubble up. So, you know, for leaders, just being very clear about what’s gonna happen. Not everybody may be happy about it. But if you aren’t clear, and you let it go, that’s the impact that you start to see. You’ll see it, like, bubble up in forms of frustration or you start getting questions about what my responsibility is. Mhmm. Those are, like, triggers that you should be really being mindful of because something something is wrong when you start to see that. So that’s a vague example, but that’s where I have seen it happen Yeah. Recently.

Rachel Cossar: What in your work now, like, how do you help organizations without strong, like, very prescribed, described l and d, stay add like, stay agile and stay like, because I feel like some of these skills that you’re talking about are developed as a result of l and d efforts. Mhmm. Right? The awareness around communication and how to do that and processes and how to make sure that a process moves beyond you and across a team and la la la. Right? Like, a lot of those, I I think, happen, as a result of l and d initiatives. So yeah. So and as a result of that being done successfully, you have a company that is moving together and in flow and all that. So how do you, like, help companies who either don’t have l n an l and d department, like, at all or, like, have one, but it’s kind of not really fulfilling the function. Yeah. Exactly. Right. So, like, how do you how do you help companies like that? Yeah.

Tracy Bizelli: You know, many, many years ago, I was a a team of one. Yeah. And, you know, I, I was supporting, like, a a customer service type setting environment, and it was just me. And, you know, what we what I ended up doing is partnering with our leadership team to understand, you know, what was really needed and where where should I focus. And it ended up being, like, leaning into things, the old concept of, like, informal learning and peer to peer learning. And so what we did was kind of engage with, the the experts across the team and had them do brown bag sessions. You know, this isn’t new stuff, but what it was doing is kind of hitting some targets in how the leadership team wanted people to engage, and how they they just the steps they wanted them to take to help the team grow. And so we developed even, like, a simple point system. So if somebody presented a brown bag, they got points where they were earning points towards something. Right? So some of these things are, like, simple things, but going back and understanding, you know, what are the resources that I have? What can I do as a person, a team of one? What is it that the org really needs to have done? Because that I think you do kind of start to pick everything up and you really need to maintain your boundary, but if you can find that one thing or two things that you can do and do really, really well, just kind of be, you have to think outside the box a little bit and how to structure and pull in the people around you. You work with lots of talented, smart people. You can’t do it all. So how do you help them get engaged to do it? That’s that’s what I would focus on first.

Rachel Cossar: And do you think it really like, is there something in general that you have found is, like, across the board, every company needs to be like, every l and d leader needs or or fines will be a priority? Like, is it manager training? Is it just, like, general employee upskilling, onboarding? Like, what have you found in that regard? Yeah.

Tracy Bizelli: It there are some commonalities, I think. You know, things like onboarding, manager training, things like that are fairly consistent. Soft skills kind of comes and goes. But I you know, the way I used to talk to my team about it was making sure that we understood, like, the product that we were gonna deliver, and being aligned with the the, you know, whatever their leadership team is and what that what those goals were and then what was the product that you needed to support that. So a lot of those things are pretty common, and I would say you don’t always have to do them in house. You know, there are a lot of great vendors that can come in and do great management training or leadership training for you, so it doesn’t always have to be, you know, the thing that you do. Find good partners to do it. But as long as it matches those goals and the product that you wanna support and provide, that’s that’s important as well. Right.

Rachel Cossar: I think that’s such a great point is, especially if you’re on the smaller side, just knowing that you can leverage external partners, which brings us to something we were discussing before we actually launched the recording, which is that at the same time, there is so much noise around vendors and who those vendors might be. Right? And so would you then maybe recommend like, would you recommend that, l and d leaders in general, like, really look for, like, a the platform that can support the majority of their needs versus kind of cobbling things together through disparate systems?

Tracy Bizelli: It’s that is a tough question, right now. And I’ve talked with lots of folks lately about the the AI platforms and things that are coming out of the of woodwork, and they’re all so good. You know? Like, you dig in, it was like, wow. So I think there’s there’s almost, like, two tracks right now. One where you have things, like, that are focused on content creation, and that’s one I think you can start to tap into. And if you haven’t already, like, start experimenting tomorrow. Yeah. My last team, laid out the Adi model, and then they’ve laid tools across that model, like what supports, in, like, graphic design or video development. And what we were looking at is, like, how much time could we save by implementing these tools? And we were testing different ones out. So I would recommend in that space, definitely test it out. It could be because we what you want is to fit it into your workflow. Right? Yep. Then on the other side, that one is where I think before you get into any platform, you need to make sure your goals are really, really clear around what you wanna do. What is it you wanna do? And making sure that, you know, you’ve you’ve done some homework with your audience to know what will work. So go in informed and test. Definitely test if you have the, you know, the ability to do that. Sometimes you don’t, but definitely test it out and think through the things like how do you actually get the system through the door. Some companies have really strict, security and privacy restrictions, and that may, you know, that may put a blocker in there. So definitely do the homework, planning, have a plan. That’s the best thing that’ll help you choose, the right tool for you, I think. Right.

Rachel Cossar: You you’ve given a ton of amazing advice already, but I’m curious. This this is kind of, you know, looking it to the future. Right? Yeah. The next decade maybe sounds a little too daunting. Maybe it’s the next year or five years. That’s a scary So I’m like, well, I’ll be who knows? But, yeah, what would be your top advice to HR and l and d leaders who are trying to really, you know, stay ahead and stay afloat in the next few years. Yeah.

Tracy Bizelli: It’s it is, I know it’s a little bit scary for folks right now. I think if if people I obviously, the answer has to include AI. Right? Like, we’re all kind of facing that today. Mhmm. If you yourself are not, skilled in AI, I mean, don’t worry. There are lots of tools out there that can help you. Start looking at it. Start practicing. I subscribe to, a newsletter. Let me I think it’s called I’ll have to I’ll have to ping it back to you so we can maybe add it.

Rachel Cossar: Yeah.

Tracy Bizelli: It’s really good, but it’s like a just a daily newsletter about AI in general. And it’s not it’s not learning focused, but it’s it’s great. I’ll make sure we get it in here. Yes. But keeping up to date on things like that, having your team experiment, like, do do those things. You watch the experiment yourself. Play around with it. Get your hands on it. Understand how it works. Because I think the more you understand, the the thing that I’ve seen is we really need to unpack kind of the underbelly of your team. Like, what are the processes? What are the tools? What are the systems? What’s all driving, driving your team? How do you manage content? You know, not just your team, but across the company. What are those things look like? Because to be really AI ready, I think you have to know what are you what are you kinda looking at? What needs to be focused on? Because sometimes it’s the unpretty, you know, unfun stuff that you really need to make sure gets tweaked and honed and Yes. Tidied up in a good way. So look, practice, learn, start to assess what’s really happening on your team, and the systems that that support your team because if though you can start to work on those. And then I think that all can help you start to shape, like, what are the roles? How do your roles on the on the team need to evolve? Some of them might be very different roles that you need to start bringing on, but there’s some evolution to some roles. Right? You have an ID today. Lots of teams have, learning experience designers. You know? Does that pivot need to happen? What does that look like? How do we help the employees kind of step change through that? That’s the stuff I think in the next, I don’t know, decade’s kinda tough, but in the next year or two years, those are the things I think I would go after. And, you know, there are some great consultants out there that if you need a thought partner that really understands AI, can help you think through those things. These are kind of big changes. Right. So, you know, lean into your partners and help bring some people in to think through things with you. That’s what we were doing, in my last role, because you don’t know it all. Right? You need some help. It’s tough. So lean into your network too. Yeah. That’s awesome.

Rachel Cossar: Tracy, thank you so much for being on the show and sharing your insight in this, like, pretty noisy chaotic time. You know, it’s really helpful, I think, particularly your perspective from having worked inside the belly of the beast, so to speak, and then now on the outside. Right? And Yeah. I think it’s helpful for both formats and structures to maintain awareness of what the experience on the other side is because, that awareness, I think, can lead to a much smoother partnership and, therefore, greater impact. Yeah. So anything else you’d like to share? No.

Tracy Bizelli: Just thank you so much for having me on. I hope, hopefully, some of this was helpful. I really enjoyed this. Thanks, Rachel. I’m so glad we got to connect. Yes. Likewise. So thank you again, Tracy.

Rachel Cossar: And and where can people, like, follow your work or connect with you? Oh, that’s a good one.

Tracy Bizelli: I’m on the LinkedIn, so look me up, Tracy Bazelli. I think you could find me there. I’m on Instagram, generically, Tracy Bazelli again.

Rachel Cossar: You can find me there. Yeah. Reach out and ping if you, you know, wanna connect.

Tracy Bizelli: I’m happy to chat anytime. Give me a ping. Awesome. Great. Well, thank you.

Rachel Cossar: And as always, thanks to our audience for tuning in. We’ll see you next time.