Skills Validation That Works

Rachel Cossar: One, and welcome to another episode of conversations in the future of work. I am your host, Rachel Kosser, and I am really excited to welcome one of our budding partners onto the show from The Regis Company. So, Mike Vaughn, welcome. Well, thank you very much. Good to be here. Wonderful to have you. Would you mind sharing a little bit with our audience, you know, what you’re what you’re focused on these days? What’s exciting you about the future of work? Oh, sure. So I serve two roles.

Mike Vaughan: One is the chief editor of the Thinking Effect, and the Thinking Effect is a website, that is dedicated to helping learning and development professionals learn about AI to help advance their career, to help them understand how they can help their own organization. So I’ve been doing that for a couple years. That’s a really exciting platform because it gives me an opportunity to really connect with people and in the l and d community. And another role that I serve is the chief, or the CEO of, the Regis company. Now the Regis company, we produce what is called the very first skills practice platform. And so this is kind of where we think the future of learning is going, really focused on that skills development and being able to not only develop skills, but be able to validate those skills. And so that’s where we think a lot of the future learning is going. Absolutely.

Rachel Cossar: And we’ll get into actually a number of those, points you just mentioned. The the first one actually going back to your, thought leadership. I I I took a look at some of the the articles and and content that you’ve gotten out there, and it’s really interesting. You know, you you spend a lot of time focusing on reshaping, rewiring mental models. So can you share more about either research you’ve found or done in this space? Oh, sure. Yeah. Maybe a little context.

Mike Vaughan: So, so I actually started coming in the AI development world, and then that got me really interested in the brain. And so went into cognitive, science and then ultimately into neuroscience. And my research there was all really focused around this area called mental models. And so thinking about a mental model is, really how how do we approach decisions? How do we interact? How do we solve problems? So these mental models kinda define that. And so what got me really excited was trying to figure out ways that would allow people to surface flawed mental models and then explore developing new types of mental models. And that’s what led me into the simulation space. So being able to put people into a simulation where they can practice skills, and as they’re doing so, become aware that, boy, the way I was looking at that or my perspective was a little bit flawed here or dated, or maybe there’s a more efficient way of doing something. So how do I do that? And then in the simulation, you explore new ways. And so that’s what, we mean kind of by that mental model research, and it’s done a number of different studies using technology to see how to change mental models. Can you give us an example? Yeah. So let’s say, you want to have, your your team really understand project management. You got a new team, you’re launching new project, and, you’re got some new team that is kind of forming and so forth. Well, what we’ve seen is a team that actually has some overlap in their mental models performs more highly. They just they’re better performance. But you don’t want complete overlap because then you have group think. And so what you’re really looking for is diversity and thought, but with some areas of overlap. And so now imagine putting that team together into an experience where they’re surfacing their strengths and each other’s becoming aware of those, but at the same time, they’re developing a common language, a common vision, a common mission on how they wanna run those projects, communicate, and so forth. And in doing that, we found that overall team performance goes up because of that overlaps in mental models. Right. Interesting.

Rachel Cossar: You know, I I also really I I think that there and we we have a actually, you know, the the next question is is about this. So let me actually skip skip over to it because I think what you just mentioned about the simulations and giving people an opportunity to actually practice something beyond being exposed to a concept Mhmm. Is where a lot of trainings have historically fallen short. Right? And so I’d love to hear kind of your thoughts on where you think corporate training to date does fall flat, and and if you can dive a little bit deeper into this concept you’ve mentioned a few times of skills validation. Sure. Yeah.

Mike Vaughan: One of one of the things the underlying research behind the website, the Thinking Effect, was this whole notion about a lot of training, for last twenty years has been really focused on teaching people what to think. Yeah. And what we really need to be doing in learning is educating people on how to think. So how to adapt their thoughts, their behaviors to new and emerging situations more quickly, more effectively. And so what we’re seeing is kind of where training falls flat is, people continue to really focus on that what to think, that foundational knowledge. Now that’s important, so don’t get me wrong. We all need that foundational knowledge because without it, it’s really hard to go practice and apply that. And so, but what we’re really finding is that AI is doing an amazing job at providing more of that foundation foundational knowledge. And so then that really begs the question. It’s like, okay. Where’s the puck going? You know, what what is that future? And so what we’ve been thinking a lot about is the convergence of skill development and skill validation. So we’re seeing a kinda a convergence where the l and d department is starting to merge underneath talent. So they’re kind of coming together. So now you have your HR systems that have been really focused on talent identification Yep. And being able to help identify the right people for the right job at the right time type of thing. Now with l and d underneath them, well, you still have that learning development aspect. But now with skills validation, it’s actually providing, not only that individual with greater insight into their gaps and how well they can apply a skill under certain situations. But it’s also feeding those HR systems to give them a re richer dataset to help, you know, identify the right people. So that’s where we see it. Skill development combining with skill validation is where we see a lot of the future of LND. Right. Yeah. That’s really interesting.

Rachel Cossar: And I you know, at at Virtual Sapiens, obviously, we, you know, share a lot of the same values. But I I think what you said about because I think that there’s a lot of understandable fear when it comes to applications of AI and the general atrophy of the way people are using their their minds and thinking. Right? Because it can be pretty astounding to use AI for certain specific tasks and realize that you’ve just kind of skipped ahead in terms of a lot of the thinking that would have been required to produce that same document or piece of information or proposal or, like, whatever it may be. Right? And so I think platforms like the ones that you’ve developed at the Regis company and the one we have at Virtual Sapiens are really interesting because the AI is very much in support of the development of these thinking, reasoning skills. Absolutely. Yeah. It’s that higher cognitive skills. That’s that’s right.

Mike Vaughan: And I think that’s what makes our platform so unique is that they’re not targeting that knowledge level consumption learning. It’s really targeting really that how to think and practicing it and adapting your thinking and developing that decision making, problem solving, collaboration, those higher order thinking skills. Right. Right.

Rachel Cossar: Which, is I I think it’s just gonna become more and more important. Right? Like, the the the opportunity to have AI not provide you with the answer, but help you reflect and reason towards the answer you feel is most appropriate depending on the context. Right? And I think that it’s really imperative to have more platforms that can help professionals develop those skills. Yep. Oh, I I love that. And that’s what I’ve always loved about virtual sapiens.

Mike Vaughan: It it does that very thing where it Mhmm. Doesn’t just give you an answer. It gives you a chance to discover it and come to that self awareness. One of the things we found with our mental model research that if you’re gonna change your mental model, you need to get to that cognitive dissonance so that, you know, triggering, call it the anterior cingular cortex, which is your error detection. And then you need to be able to have that effect, you know, that moment of insight, and then you need to be able to practice it. And that’s what I’ve always thought, your product does a fantastic job around. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah.

Rachel Cossar: We like, it’s funny because we call I don’t know. It’s not it’s like a little bit less of a scientific word, but I I think it gets to the same principle as, like, blind spots. Right? These blind spots right? So we focus a lot on those behavioral blind spots that we might not realize are really getting in the way of the message we’re sending or the connection we’re trying to establish. Right? And then on the other side, there are those blind spots in terms of the way we’re thinking the the mental model, the way we’re thinking about something, and how it might not be as reflective of reality or, you know, whatever it is that we’re considering. Oh, I love that. Oh, I love that language, actually. That’s that’s a great one.

Mike Vaughan: My wife was asking me this weekend, let’s talk about our blind spots. And I was like, they’re blind spots. So how do I know which ones to have? I know. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And that like like, as you said, the moment Uh-huh.

Rachel Cossar: Is what facilitators are always looking for in workshops. Right? We’re always, like, looking like, if we can get someone to have an moment, it’s it’s basically it’s all the same thing. It’s all the finding that dissonance between our perception to date and then this new finding, that has either been surfaced during an experiential workshop, human led, that’s great, or has been surfaced by a platform that is in a like, AI enabled and AI powered. Yeah. Yeah. Fully agree. I love that. Yeah. That’s great language.

Mike Vaughan: That’s awesome.

Rachel Cossar: What trends are you seeing in corporate training and and specifically in terms of well, yes, budget because that’s on everyone’s minds these days. But also in terms of you know, are you finding that companies are really leaning into some of these AI powered tools to help programming? Like, where where’s the is there a balance between Sure. In person and and and platform based? Like, yeah. I’m just curious to hear what you’re seeing. Yeah.

Mike Vaughan: So on the on the first part of that, we are seeing l and d and talent, I mentioned this earlier, coming together. Mhmm. Yeah. We’re seeing the CLO role change. That CLO title doesn’t seem to be, kind of a a top priority now. It’s kinda merging into talent. So those jobs and job roles, I think, are gonna be morphing here in the next couple years. And and then part of the budget, what we’re seeing right now is everyone is flat. They’re not getting any new dollars. And and so what they’re being asked to do is what what can you do to produce high quality learning with the people you have? So I think that is really for the next year. Being part of the thinking effect and with AI as my background, I do feel like that is gonna start changing in a year where it’s gonna be do more with less message. Right. And, and what that is gonna basically mean is, hey, l and d team. We’re gonna, you know, probably cut your budget. And so what value can you get from AI? How are you gonna automate needs analysis? How are you gonna automate design? How are you gonna automate content creation and development? How are you gonna cut subject matter expert time? How are you gonna cut the overall l and d life cycle so you can respond to business needs faster with a higher quality experience? And so I think that’s gonna start to force the use of AI. I would say one of the things that we saw, especially early on when we launched the Thinking Effect, is for the first year or two, most of the media was talking about all the fear around AI. And so much so, I think people got really nervous to use AI, especially in corporations. Yeah. And they were terrified, like, if I post something and it gets exposed, I’ll lose my job. I think that’s starting to shift. If I start looking at the media, even mainstream magazines, you’re seeing the front cover. It’s how do you partner with AI? How do you get the value of AI? So I think that language change is going to make it easier for not only learning development professionals, but the organization to start to take advantage of, the benefits of AI. Right. Yeah.

Rachel Cossar: I think that I mean, that’s great to see that turning points. You know, we’ve noticed also, and I’m sure you have too. The other thing that I think is really fascinating is that role in learning, whoever’s leading the strategy around learning, is now, like, very close partners with IT or, you know, that data privacy and security role. And, I think, initially, there was a lot of hesitation to face that because it can be so complex and it can really slow things down. But I see it as unavoidable. Right. I do too. Yeah.

Mike Vaughan: We’re gonna see more convergence of IT, l and d, HR, these systems. Yeah. Right.

Rachel Cossar: And so I always because virtual sapiens has such a partnership approach, you know, I always try to help the individual on our partner side who’s having to, like, present this hybrid solution, right, whether there is a human component involved. But definitely our technology is so AI enabled that or so AI AI powered that, you know, oftentimes, there’s this, like, hesitation to even begin the conversation. And it’s like, well but then, you know, but then on the on the flip side, like, once you do go through that procurement vendor process approval, then then it’s actually your solution becomes quite sticky because there’s been some Yeah. Just getting through that is the hard part. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Yeah.

Mike Vaughan: Awesome.

Rachel Cossar: So, you know, you’ve one of the things that’s been really interesting in in, hearing more about your journey is is is the the entrepreneurial components of it and how you’ve navigated across, you know, a number of different ecosystems and over the past year. So I’d be curious to hear more about, you know, what are some of the big learnings as as a entrepreneur that you’ve had. Oh my goodness. That’s a big question. Alright.

Mike Vaughan: It’s, much harder I than I thought. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, yeah, it’s it is it’s really hard. I think it sounds a little cliche, but clarity and purpose is the utmost importance. And and the reason I say it sounds a little cliche is because I always thought I had clarity and purpose. You know, I always felt I had purpose because I always wanted to create a learning experience that really made a difference in someone’s life. So I’ve always had that clarity or that, I guess, that North Star. But when you start to think about product and technology, it’s like, what do you need to really create to do that? And getting clarity because you start chasing too many different ideas and too many potential paths, and that I think could be it’s absolutely detrimental to an entrepreneur or to a business. And so being crystal clear with what you do, what you do exceptionally well in our North Star, you know, making a difference in someone’s life is really been very helpful. And the second one is, the people that, I surround myself with, because it is so darn hard. You want people that can pick you up, that is just gonna love on you and and help get you back on your feet, and then people that you really respect because they bring a challenging opinion, a different idea. Yeah. But yet, you can work together, collaborate on to refine it. And so I would say those are probably the two big biggest lessons. I mean, you’re an entrepreneur too. I’d love to hear your thought. Yeah. No. It’s so funny that it I would agree with your first statement.

Rachel Cossar: You know, I think I was having a conversation with another entrepreneur, friend over the weekend, and, I I I think you in founding something, I feel like you have to have a little bit of naivete Mhmm. In order to do it. Because otherwise, like, if you’re gonna look at things so realistically and, like, you look at the numbers of success rate and you’re like, well, like, realistically, logically, they shouldn’t go for this. Right? Like, everything is against me in this. So you kind of have to go into it without without knowing how hard it’s gonna be. And I I certainly a great point. I definitely did. You’re right. Like, you have this vision. You’re like, this is gonna be great. I’m the person to do it. And then you go for it. And then yeah. And then almost. Oh my god. And then you have that, like right. Like, what was do you remember the first, like, big barrier that you faced? Oh, goodness. The first big one.

Mike Vaughan: I trying to think. Let’s see. I I would I would say well, there’s so many of them. It’s it’s like I’m trying to think, gosh, everything I you know, like, when I’m trying to figure out how to take something to market, how to get product market fit. Yeah. You know, you you take a simple concept like product market fit, but it’s not a simple concept. It’s a it’s a journey, and it’s a very complex journey. And so I was completely thinking, oh, yeah. Everyone’s gonna love what we’re gonna do. And then you put it out there, and it’s like, woah. They actually don’t love it as much as I love it. And so now what do I need to do? You know? And Yeah. I think that’s, the challenges. I don’t know if that was the biggest barrier, but, it’s certainly a big challenge that, have faced. Yeah. Yeah. I do. Remember your biggest barrier? I do.

Rachel Cossar: I actually I had we had built a POC. Sorry. Not really a PC, an MVP. And right. Because one of the things that we were trying one of the assumptions we had was that, you know, the AI would be able to provide compelling feedback, in real time, like, as you’re on a Zoom call. Right? Because initially, that’s what we started with was the in call coach. And we had built this MVP, and it was working really nicely. And we were, like, using it concurrently in browser with a Google Meet, and then I was using it concurrently with my Zoom application on my Mac. Right? Because I’m a Mac user. So it was working so well, and we’re so excited. And then we actually, like, very early had our first client use the product and pay for it. And they’re a PC shop. Oh, no. Yeah. So he realized. Yeah. And so he was like, oh, I can’t like, if I have virtual sapiens running, I can’t use my Zoom application or vice versa. If I have Zoom using my camera, Virtual Sapiens can’t access it. And we didn’t know that PCs can on PCs, only one application can access your webcam at the same time. So you need actually a virtual camera to split the stream and send it to both applications or provide both applications with access. Oh my goodness. So And so I remember, like, being in bed in this. At this point, I’d already, like, raised some money. You know? And so I was like, am I wow. Was this my journey? Like, literally, like, three months. And then I’m gonna just be like, actually, this is impossible and, like, give people their money back. Oh, yeah. Like, so bad. But then, you know, we, like, dug into it more and, of course, you know, I had some great, at that point. This was before my cofounder had joined, but, I had a wonderful early, advisor on the technical side, and we figured out a way. But, again, we figured out the solution of the virtual camera. Which is awesome for the fun of being an entrepreneur. Right?

Mike Vaughan: That’s what probably keeps, keeps us going is figuring out how to work through all these problems and challenges. Yeah. Yeah.

Rachel Cossar: So, I mean, it’s it’s interesting because it’s continued to be a bit of a barrier for that specific product. Mhmm. You know, but now now we we we actually focus more on some of the practice, asynchronous practice opportunities that aren’t really happening during a call so we don’t have to worry about multiple cameras needing access. Perfect. Yeah. Yep. That’s what you gotta do. Oh my god.

Mike Vaughan: Yeah. I’ll never let you get that. It’s, like, so stressful. There it is. Yeah. Awesome.

Rachel Cossar: Well, I, you know, I I feel like we could keep keep going and talking about a number of different things. But is there anything else that you’d like to share with our audience today?

Mike Vaughan: I think, you know, from the Thinking Effect perspective, I would say this is the time to really learn these AI tools, start experimenting. You need to figure out how they’re gonna save you time, how they can help you add more value, because I think that’s gonna be important to every individual. And then, you know, from the Regus perspective, you know, the thing that we’re really trying to do is help people learn new skills faster, and and so they can have confidence in what they’re doing. Yeah. And so, you know, these are kinda two things that we’re deeply passionate about and, you know, hope that, others can, you know, look into it as well. Yeah.

Rachel Cossar: How, the thinking effect, is that like, what’s the easiest way for people to follow that? Yeah.

Mike Vaughan: I would say the easiest way, hit the website, the thinkingeffect.com, is the easiest way to hit that. And then if you wanna learn more about skill development, hit the regiscompany.com. Awesome. Great.

Rachel Cossar: Well, Mike, thank you so much for joining us this morning and sharing all your insights, you know, across a broad range of subjects. And, as always, thanks thanks to our audience for tuning in. We’ll see you next time. Awesome. Thank you so much. Alright.