Pulling Off The Perfect Virtual Meeting

Rachel Cossar: Everyone, and welcome to another episode in conversations in the future of work. I am your host, Rachel Cossar, co founder and CEO of virtual Sapiens, and I am really excited about today’s topic, which is focused on virtual meetings. We’ll talk about hybrid meetings as well. And we have 2 incredible guests who are the founders of a company called MeetMe. And so with that, Elon, please introduce yourself. Hi, Rachel.

Elan Ressel: I’m, Elon Russell, and I’m the CEO of Meetby. Meetby is a a company that is focused on making virtual meetings better. And, we’re basically a virtual outsourced virtual meeting production company. If I could put it into a a short sentence. Amazing.

Rachel Cossar: And you have, like, a really interesting background too. Yeah.

Elan Ressel: It’s a kind of a combination of different things, a background as a voice over artist, a video producer, an e learning, sort of, creator, for for want of a better term and, and then also a virtual facilitator and virtual producer. So if you combine all of those 5 things all into 1, that’s kind of where you find me at this point in my career. Awesome. I love that.

Rachel Cossar: So we’re we’re gonna get into that in a little more in a second. Mark, over to you. Rachel, thank you so much.

Marc Chase: Well, I can say very, very clearly that, Elon has got pretty much everything around meet the down pat. I would say that very much would we have focused on over the last few years in identifying specific opportunities where virtual meetings have still persisted post pandemic and when Elon speaks about the e learning environment, what we defined and identified when it came to meet these target audiences, is the continuing professional education space where there’s a lot of ongoing education and training there. And what they found when they went to the pandemic is what was historically in person, went into a webinar format. And then post pandemic, everyone just found it to be far more convenient than meeting in person. So that gives you a perspective of where meat be kind of lies. Yeah. Awesome.

Rachel Cossar: So, Mark, I’d I’d like to stick with you, for this, but how do you, like, share the crossroads between your personal experience? We heard a little bit about Alon’s background, but like how have your personal professional experiences come in to influence your role as a coach and and now your work with MeetMe. It’s a great question.

Marc Chase: I came from the the world of voice acting and voice service. I’ve been doing it for well over 25 years now. And for about 10 of my years in my career, I was a national television news anchor, and I read the the news and television every single day. And when we went into this virtual environment, as you had mentioned, the coaching and the facilitation a few years before the pandemic, Initially, I was wondering how do my skills fit in terms of this environment. But what you learned from television is very much the same that you’re trying to take into a virtual meeting. And it comes down to being very mindful that you are in a space with a camera and your audience is distributed all across the country or all across the world. When you go into a virtual meeting, you have to take that same consideration of how do you keep people engaged? How do you keep people focused and how do you draw them to be prompted to do certain things? When we started MeetMe and integrating the considerations of supporting virtual meetings and supporting webinars. One of the things that we found incredibly important is how our own people show up And very often, especially in the US driven market, you have folks who are known as producers. And what you tend to find in the traditional sense of a producer is that they hide behind a camera. The camera’s off They’re not very mindful on their presence and how to communicate effectively. And what we all very well know as consummate professionals in terms of presenting right here in this room is we could be as good as we want. But if there are technical issues, if there are challenges and we don’t feel secure in the fact that the person next to us can truly support us. We’ll be derailed. We’ll lose our ability to stay present, and we’ll be wondering what we need to do from a technical perspective. And by bringing those skills from television and letting our people know how to come across and how to instill confidence and trust in a very quick space of time, it allows the presenter to feel comfortable and effectively have a very good and successful virtual meeting. Yeah. That’s so I always it’s so funny.

Rachel Cossar: I always know, when someone’s been on, like, TV or radio, like, the the way you use your voice is And so I’m like, I’m like, I could I feel like I could listen to talk all day. And and funny enough. You know what, Rachel?

Elan Ressel: You know, Mark, isn’t telling you about what he did before TV, which was radio. And I remember many years ago, I mean, I’m going 20 years ago, probably not close on. Driving around in my car late at night and listening to Mark on the radio. We hadn’t even met yet, but I used to listen to him on the radio. So I knew him. As a radio personality and isn’t crazy like what can happen in 20 years. You end up working together and, in a business as partners is kind of crazy to think about that. That’s crazy.

Rachel Cossar: So here’s a follow-up question to this related. Do you ever get pushback from people who are like, well, I’m not, like, I’m not a TV person. Like, I’m I’m not a radio personality. Like, I don’t feel comfortable with any with being on camera at all. Like, do you get that ever? Yeah. All the time.

Marc Chase: I Elon, I don’t know if you wanna add to that comment. Yeah.

Elan Ressel: I think one of the biggest things is that we I I think people don’t they underestimate the power of being on camera. And, I mean, I’ve said this a hundred times, but, you know, when you have the opportunity to meet face to face, Rachel, I would see you. I would hear you. I would maybe smell your perfume. I shake you by the hand. I’m not gonna taste you, you know, but but but I have access to all my senses. And and when I’m in a virtual environment, I only have access to 2. I have access to my sites and my hearing. And if you’re gonna rely on hearing only, you may as well just make a phone call. Like, if you’re gonna go into virtual meeting, my attitude is come on camera because so much is said without saying a single word, the way that you sit in the chair, the way that you nod your head, the way that you furrow your your eyebrows, these things tell your audience a whole lot and you can pick up so much more. You can say, oh, noticed it looks like you’re a little concerned about that or looks like that’s frustrating to you. Or it I can see you’re excited by that. And so it really is, something that when people say, I don’t wanna come on camera, it frustrates me a lot because I really wish they would understand the importance of doing that. And so, yes, there’s a lot of pushback to answer your question.

Marc Chase: And if I could add to what Elon is saying, if we had to use the same analogy around television and radio that arguably, if you’re on camera, you’re making it easier on yourself. And the way to describe this is radio needs a lot more color it needs a lot more descriptive language. If you think of watching your favorite game on television, the commentator is able to prompt what he sees on the picture as you are at home. When you’re listening to a commentator on radio he has to paint that picture in your mind of the environment, the scenery, the the feeling of the crowd, the, the impact and the energy on the field. That arguably when we think of the realm of storytelling, if you’re gonna be off camera, that’d be a good storyteller because that’s what you need to rely on to provide far more description. Right. Absolutely. That’s I mean, it makes a ton of sense.

Rachel Cossar: And of course, you’re speaking my language over here at virtual Sapiens with the power of video and the way you show up. Where do you where do you tend to lie in terms of like super, super highly produced video even for something like a meeting versus something maybe that that’s definitely intentional but maybe not like, you know, the fanciest camera, the fanciest line fit, you know, what where do you lie on that? Like, super produced versus more casual?

Elan Ressel: Or I I think I’m gonna hand it over to Mark because he likes the super produced. He’s very, very conscious of, I guess, it comes from his background. In television, and he’s helped me. You know, I I used to have a a clear black background. I thought in the beginning of the pandemic, listen, I just don’t want everyone to see my mess behind me. Mhmm. So I kind of went to a secondhand furniture store. I said, give me some of those desk dividers. Put them in a, like, I put them with Velcro in, like, a v behind me, put them on wheels, and I’m just gonna wheel them in behind me over here so no one can see anything. And then, you know, marks it to me. You it’s probably a good idea that maybe you might wanna try taking that away because then you could put things in the background that really mean a lot to you, and it it’s a great conversation starter. So, you know, I we don’t necessarily Both Mark and I have run virtual meetings from dozens of different countries. And there you have to kind of be a little bit more flexible. You know, you try and find a good place with good light. Mark has got some cool tools that he shared with me about how you can raise your your laptop up so that the cameras at eye level, and those little things make a difference, you know, in terms of how you come across, it does take a lot, but it is very effective when you do it right. Mark, you have anything to add to that? Yeah.

Marc Chase: You were mentioning earlier on about the aspect of when we meet in person and and how you’re able to get far more signaling around that. And when you’re meeting virtually, it’s what you don’t say that can add to the conversation. Whether you’re at your home location or another location, If you’re just taking a few more minutes of mindfulness and how you wanna show up, what’s being showed in your background, especially a lot of us have connected on the road via hotel room. And it literally takes 5 minutes. It just is the mindfulness o over the lighting, which I always travel with lighting. And that, again, it kinda compacts itself into a small case. It doesn’t require much space whatsoever. Elon was referencing these great contraptions allow you to put your laptop into into eye level, and then just look at the background. And there’s just some some things that always be mindful of. Always, always have some form of background lighting. It just adds depth to your picture. You can do that in a hotel room because there are a million lights in there. The thing is if you were meeting in person and you did not care about how you shop, you’ll probably arrive in pajamas. But you don’t. So we have to be mindful that this is a new set of behavior skills that we have to implement. Once we’re aware of the reason why we have the camera in eye level, why we wanna put some depth into our picture to create a sense of naturalness around us. It doesn’t take much. It will take about as much time as it takes to choose an outfit for your interaction. Yeah.

Rachel Cossar: And so like virtual backgrounds versus real backgrounds. I’m guessing you guys are fully in the real background camp.

Elan Ressel: We are, but, actually, there’s a very interesting thing. It’s it’s interesting that you mentioned this because Mark and I have always been, you know, well, I didn’t really care. As I said, I had a black background and people would say, you’re black. You’re in space. I said, well, you you what do you care? As long as you can focus on me. And I think you don’t want stuff in the background that’s gonna tracked people from the attention that you’re trying to get as the person speaking. So we always believe that the real background does add some it’s it feels as if you’ve got nothing to hide. Right? But there was a a recent, interaction that, that we had with somebody that, you know, there there were some things that they didn’t necessarily want to share with everyone else. This was the private space in their home. And, you know, when they moved suddenly like that, we caught a glimpse of it and we could say, oh, I can’t understand why you didn’t wanna share that with everyone. So I can understand why are legitimate reasons why people might have a virtual or a blurred background. I even work with this one client that works in the aerospace industry. A lot of government contracts they have to be so careful that they don’t inadvertently put something up on a whiteboard and then share that through the camera with the entire wood. Maybe the meeting gets recorded and now suddenly Military secrets are are getting leaked. So there are legitimate reasons why you wouldn’t want it, but I think generally for the most part, most people should do in, you know, have a real background. Yeah. Yeah. No. I would agree.

Rachel Cossar: I think, my cofounder is so funny because he’s he’s a total music fanatic. And he has these phenomenal guitars and musical instruments behind him. And he always blurs his background. I’m like, anytime I’m like, Why? Like, don’t do that because and then when he when he does show up to like a client or prospect call and and you can see every I mean, the number of people who are like, oh, I play this. Or, you know, I grew up and I’m like, well, that’s amazing. You you you just brought such a different aspect and rapport to what would otherwise have been such a kind of draft experience. So, yeah, I see. You know, because as with most of it.

Marc Chase: You know, if I had to add this very quickly, that I tend to see it a little bit differently when it comes to blurred backgrounds, it actually generates more distraction for me because I’m quite curious to know what the blob is behind them. And because of the technology, and this is something which is really important for everyone that you wanna come across as clear as possible. You mentioned earlier about cameras. Well, You can have the best camera in the world, but the minute you put a virtual or blurred background in whether it’s zoom, Webex teams, it creates more processing requirements for your computer. And it also doesn’t catch up as quickly. So if you just make a sudden movement and then come back here, I’ll see what you had behind. So keep in mind, if you’re trying to hide pile of washing behind you, going, oh, this blur it. You made one sudden movement. I’ll kinda see anyway. How about taking that 5 minutes before the meeting to set yourself up for cis by moving it away. Yep. Totally. Alright.

Rachel Cossar: Let’s let’s move on here. So where do you see virtual hybrid beatings going from here? There’s already been so much evolution but, like, what’s next? Can I jump in, please?

Marc Chase: So the term hybrid as you will you well know, Rachel came in late 2020. It was becoming more and more of a normalized term. And I think, ideally, the whole point is it’s having some folks in an office and some folks somewhere else. That’s really what it what it boils down to. And I arguably feel the term has become slightly obsolete because with the way the so called return to work should we say evolution is carrying 4th versus those who are still very adamant in having flexible time to work from any particular location, not just WFH, but WFA, which is working from anywhere. Mhmm. The idea of hybrid is not really giving the full picture. It’s some people are at the workplace and they’re having happening connect there. There could be a conference meeting where a group of people are meeting in person. It’s becoming not as regular because more and more people are choosing to be remote based in certain times. I mean, ultimately, if you’re gonna go into a physical work location to dial into a virtual call, Why are you in the physical location? Why is it to stay at home and make that connection? So ultimately, when you look at where it’s going, I think it’s coming down to behavior and being more mindful on how we tend to see this because, Rachel, you know, you hear this from a lot of folks. That they say, oh, no. The virtual experience is much worse, but as great as that in person experience. But what are they doing? What kind of intention are they putting towards that virtual interaction to make sure that folks feel engaged and included and and feel value out of that interaction with you. Yeah. No. Absolutely.

Rachel Cossar: I we We get that all the time with them at virtual savings.

Marc Chase: Obviously, the work that we’re doing is to help the the humans who are behind the screens really show up, but there’s it’s so funny.

Rachel Cossar: I think Zoom maybe 6 months or or so ago. You probably saw this article came out and they were like, We’re bringing everyone back into the office because you can’t build trust over video. And I was like, okay. First of all, wow. Like, Zoom, you’re saying that you can’t build trust over your own platform. Like, we all know that that’s not true. 2nd of all, like, it’s like we’re missing the point. Like, if we’re not being able to build trust trust is a behavioral thing. It’s not a channel based thing. You can build trust over the telephone, you know.

Marc Chase: And just like yourself, MeetMe is a remote first company. We started in the pandemic and our people are distributed all across the world. Not everyone’s even met each other. So I’ve never met our clients too.

Elan Ressel: If I can say that, you know, we we probably never will, in many cases, never never ever meet their face to face, and that’s okay. You don’t have to. You know? I trust Google. I’ve never met Google or, you know, all the founders of Google. It’s it’s it’s it’s not I think that was a really silly statement on their part to say such a thing. I was so shocked.

Rachel Cossar: But, yeah, I mean, to your point, I think It’s so interesting to hear you, Mark, say how even the term hybrid and the concept hybrid is so much more multifaceted now. You know, than it was when it first came came to us in 2020. Yeah. Yeah.

Elan Ressel: I I I kind of look at you know, to answer that question, we don’t see it going from here. The question is, how far do you want me to go in the future? Because I I sort of said, you know, I have a tendency to to think a little bit too far sometimes. But, you know, I I kind of look to the science fiction that we all grew up with the the Star Trek and the Star Wars as ways to sort of see how we might be able to connect because the way that if we see Obi Wan Kenobi coming up or pathway to chatting to the the emperor or whatever, and and and he just comes up as like a hologram Well, that’s a virtual meeting. He’s, you know, there’s a bunch of people in the room, and there’s somebody in another planet. Who knows where they are? If you see captain Kirk talk to the the klingons over the up periscope, whatever he says, and says up screen, and he has a virtual meeting. He doesn’t say, oh, hold on. Did we send them the right Zoom link? So I think there’s a what I see is happening, is is a blurring of the platforms into something that’s a little bit more cohesive so that it’s just easier to connect with people. I think there’s a lot of companies trying to fuck their way to be the the predominant force for that. I don’t know who’s gonna win ultimately. But I was sent to Mark, you know, if you look at Star Trek and Scotty, it’s like, beam me up, Scotty. Everyone knows that phrase. I said one day spy is one of our people. He’s one of our meat bee producers. Right? He’s the guy that’s facilitating the the connecting of people, whether that’s physically beaming them down through whatever technology that is or doing it virtually to this is what it’s about. It’s about connecting. And, I think that we’ll never no matter what how far we go into the future, whenever as a species is gonna stop wanting to connect with people even if it’s one day between planets. Yes. Oh my gosh. Amazing.

Rachel Cossar: So we’ve talked about a number of things that our audience could could take away and and immediately improve their virtual presence in meetings. What what would be, like, if there was, like, one thing for each of you that you would say, like, definitely in the next virtual do this? What would it be? Mark Buffy.

Marc Chase: It’s actually quite easy. It’s making a choice. Do you really wanna be there? And the nice thing is that there’s AI to replace you if you really don’t wanna be there. But if you do have to be there, Make it feel to others that you want to be there. How many folks have we jumped onto virtual meetings who seem so disinterested who are looking at their second monitor, perhaps, and looking at other work and are doing other things. If you’re doing other things, perhaps similarly, if we had to use a scenario of meeting in person and how would it feel if I was meeting you and I had my cell phone, like this the entire time, doom scrolling while you’re talking. How would it make you feel? Chances are most people will say, well, make me feel great. Think of the same behavior you would bring towards a virtual meeting. We tend to forget that we can see if you are doing this with your eyes. It looks like you’re doing something else. If I feel like you’re doing something else in my mind, I’ll become disinterested in listening to you. Wanna make a better meeting? Make it that you are really willing and interested to be there and to hear others. Beautiful.

Elan Ressel: I think Mark sort of touched a little bit of what I was gonna say, which is quite simply. Look into the camera. I cannot tell you the number of people that I have to share with senior executives of major corporations that I had to say, like, I don’t feel like you’re talking to me. Like, stop looking at the me on the screen. There I am down there, but but my eyes are there. Look into the webcast. So I would just say just make it a habit. You know, my wife went to this to the craft store, and she got these little, like, googly eyes. Yeah. I have one on my on my desk over here. It’s like this. She took it and she stuck one on each side of the webcam. So it’s like these googly eyes staring at her. It works for her. It’s silly. But it reminds her the way she needs to look. And and those are the guys of the audience. So I think like, you know, look at me if you’re gonna talk to me. Otherwise, you can give the most impassioned presentation to me on the screen over there, and I’m gonna feel like who you’re talking to. That’s what I would say. Awesome. Absolutely. Yeah.

Rachel Cossar: And it’s it’s this, it’s interesting to see like the to follow the evolution of video from, you know, video was already increasing in usage as a business channel of communication before the pandemic, and then the pandemic forced everyone online. And then there was this, like, kind of backfiring because people had no choice. Like, everything had to be video. Video was the only way to see another human for a while. And now we’re coming into this, like, really new age. I feel like where those who do decide to show up on video, it’s like you you’re really you really are making a choice and therefore, like, this is such expensive real estate. Use it wisely. Right? Beautiful. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, Alon and Mark, thank you so much. For sharing your super deep insights on virtual presence and virtual meetings, with us today where can people connect with you?

Marc Chase: Well, you can go to our website, which is meetb.com. That’s meetbe.com@mebeacrossallsocialmedia. You will find us whatever your preferred and favorite medium is, but there’s nothing like connecting with us and finding yourself in a virtual meeting where we can have a chat and find out how we can support your virtual meetings in the future. Awesome. Great.

Rachel Cossar: Elon, any anything else from you before we sign off?

Elan Ressel: I just wanted to say thank you very much for having us as your guests. It’s pleasure to to be on here, and, we appreciate you having us here. Awesome. Great. Well, thank you again.

Rachel Cossar: And, of course, as always, thank you to our audience. See you next time.