Can AI Teach You About Yourself?

Rachel Cossar: Everyone, and welcome to another episode of conversations in the future of work. I am your host, Rachel Cossar, and I’m thrilled to welcome Rebecca Roachman, who will be talking to us about some of the different ways that coaches can leverage AI to amplify their work. Without further ado, Rebecca, welcome. Yes. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Rebecca Rustchman: It’s a pleasure to be here. Absolutely.

Rachel Cossar: So tell us a little bit about your background and what you’re working on now. So how much time do you have now? All good.

Rebecca Rustchman: Yeah. I have a a long story in IT and communications and, worked my whole life in the IT industry. But I mainly founded an AI coaching startup 02/2019 and really digging into how can we create, like, coaches on a platform using AI, that can help a lot more people out there than it used to be before. So, I like, one of the triggers for me was that I worked with a lot of people in IT, young leaders, and they would all really be in urgent need of more reflection and of someone to talk to. But you can’t give it to all of them, yeah, if you talk about 400 people, and I was the only trained coach, it’s not gonna happen. So we, we came up at some point then in 02/2019 with the idea of, creating something that everybody could use kind of, like, every time, and then I ran a startup for four, five years. I’m a trained coach as well myself for more than fifteen years, and so it’s always been at my heart to combine all these things. And I’m now running for, yeah, more than half a year the VivaLab Coaching Academy, where we try to bring AI literacy into the coaching and learning world. Amazing. Awesome.

Rachel Cossar: So let’s let’s dive right in. How or what are some of the ways or maybe your favorite ways that coaches can use AI to amplify their own coaching work?

Rebecca Rustchman: My favorite ways. They have changed over time as well. My current favorite way is actually using it first to reflect on kind of like your own coaching and your coaching style. And I think that’s where we kind of, like, connected on as well and use an AI coach for self reflecting on your last coaching sessions and all this. So I’ve created Eliza last year, as kind of like a little project, you know, like, to try for supervision and and see how coaches can use that. Because as we always say, you should eat your own dog food first, yeah, before using anything to the clients. But but then really what’s really helpful, like, to use it as a coach or in a coaching session or as a corporate, you know, like, with, your employees is really just, like, an an onboarding and, you know, like, really clarifying the topic for people because a lot of people have many different topics or not yet really sure about their topic, but they feel the urgent need to talk about something. Mhmm. I think that would be one of my favorite use cases as well to get more clarity about what you really want before you enter an actual coaching relationship with a coach. Right. Right. Interesting.

Rachel Cossar: So almost like a on on on both ends for the coaches to use, but then also the clients to use as, like, a precursor to the actual human to human interaction. Is that kind of right? Yes.

Rebecca Rustchman: I mean, like, you can, of course, use them as well for actual, like, coaching sessions for self reflection with an AI. I mean, they’re not at the level where human coaching is, but that’s something that you can always access, you know, even at 02:00 in the morning, if you just can’t fall asleep and there’s something you need to talk through with something. Yeah. So, and that’s one of the use cases that people really appreciate the most that their coach or they don’t have a coach or their coach is not available, that they just have a conversation partner. Right. Totally. Yeah.

Rachel Cossar: The conversation partner piece is very powerful. Do you find that coaches are becoming more open to incorporating AI? Do you find that there’s still a lot of fear around this?

Rebecca Rustchman: I would say still both. Well, four or five years ago, everybody would just, like, go, like, yeah. No. That’s not gonna happen. A lot of people are now curious to explore and more and more people are actually working with it and seeing the potential. While there, I think, is still a lot of fear in the market and uncertainty and overwhelm, because as you know, working with these technologies, you get overwhelmed really fast. Yeah. So of course, there is still, you know, like, a huge, amount of people out there who don’t really know yet how to navigate that. But the number of people who are working more and seeing the potential is getting bigger and bigger by actually the day and week. Yeah. Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. Makes sense.

Rachel Cossar: You mentioned this in answer to the previous question, but I’m just curious. Like, can you give us concrete examples of ways that AI can teach us about ourselves, like, even just anecdotally from your from yourself and your own experience?

Rebecca Rustchman: I mean, like, there is ourselves as humans in the picture, so it can teach us a lot about what connection and presence and, like, the human factors in a conversation really bring to a human to human connection with our clients. But then there’s also the point where AI can really help us to better understand ourselves and then also improve on who we are because, like, we we we see a lot of coaches really still not like, or struggling with who am I as a coach. Mhmm. Yeah. So why do people actually love being coached by me? Yeah. Or why are they coming back and actually trying to find out their personal value proposition is something that AI can really help you with and get more clarity also for yourself and what you actually bring. Yeah. And and and why, you know, like, what what are the benefits? You know, like, why people would come back, you know, to to the coaching with you. Right.

Rachel Cossar: And because we had a really interesting webinar that you hosted by the time this goes live, like, a couple weeks ago. But, something that you brought up, which I I thought was a really interesting and strong point is that, like, now that AI can meet certain coaching needs in the market. Right? Certainly not at the same level as a human, but that need to really differentiate our coaching styles and our coaching voices, is even more important. Right? Because to be able to differentiate yourself, yes, from other coaches, but, like, also from, like, here’s why you should hire and spend more money on my coaching than, like, you know, a convenient AI version, right, is because of x, y, and z. Mhmm. Right? And that’s, at the end of the day, I do think that that can be scary for a lot of people, but it is also going to help the quality of everyone’s coaching and everyone’s coaching experience grow. Yeah.

Rebecca Rustchman: Like, we it just means for the future that we have to work a lot on the coach education as well. Yeah. So to actually get coaches much faster from, let’s say, a basic level coaching to actually using more and more tools, techniques, yeah, within their coaching and and really wrapping up their presence and just being with the client because I think that’s gonna become more and more important, not throwing more tools at them. Yeah. I can do that easily. But really, how can we just be there for them, yeah, in our presence, in our human presence?

Rachel Cossar: Yeah.

Rebecca Rustchman: Totally.

Rachel Cossar: So that you know, at virtual sapiens, one of the big things that REA does is will reflect behaviors back and specifically presence oriented behaviors. Right? So having have you taken a few assessments on our platform, was there something that our AI taught you about yourself?

Rebecca Rustchman: Good question. I actually love that. It showed me that I use a lot of filler words, which I do, because I’m also not a native speaker. So I have to do the extra thinking sometimes, and then there are these, Yeah. So, I loved actually that because it pointed that out for me again. And, otherwise, I got a lot of green, like, check marks, so I was actually happy about that. Yeah. Actually, it was a validation.

Rachel Cossar: On a couple of things. Yeah. Yes.

Rebecca Rustchman: So I haven’t really used it like in like for like an actual coaching session just for role play. But what I really loved are the the possibilities to just create a role play with maybe some very challenging characters that leave you speechless. Yeah. So because when you coach a lot of high level or executive level, clients, then they do sometimes come back with very interesting topics or just remarks and you’re kind of like, oh, or there may be more, you know, like demanding in in other ways. So practicing that to really get more fluent, in your coaching answers and, you know, like, how you reply or how you can then further challenge them. I think that’s very helpful. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Rachel Cossar: Excellent. So what do you think we need to be wary of, when it comes to using AI, either to amplify coaching or just in general?

Rebecca Rustchman: I mean, there are different topics that come to mind. That’s why I’m kind of, like, thinking. One topic definitely is the current trend of creating the avatars that look like you. Yeah. What what where I could see yeah. The take on your personality and what is that gonna do with you as the human coach, yeah, if you have these clones. So that’s something I’m actually thinking about quite a lot, what the what the personal identity means in the future of AI because you can be easily copied. Yeah. So we all know that, like, working with these technologies. So but will how will that reflect back on how people perceive me personal, yeah, as a as a high quality coach at some point? And then also data compliance is a huge issue, not only because I’m in the EU, because I think the coaching industry and the conversations that we have, they need to be more protected in many ways. I’ve just honestly, beef just before jumping on this call, I’ve been reading through some data compliance of a tool, offered in The US for creating these AI avatar coaches. And it creeps me out sometimes reading through the compliance piece. Yeah. Of kind of like all the data that can be shared with government authorities, especially in a current situation that we have globally with different governments throughout the world. And you really have to watch out on like where the data in the end is being hosted, where the company is from, you know, like what data is gonna be released, to who, and, and what will be processed and stored on service and things like that. So there’s a whole because coaching conversations should be kept confidential. Yep. Yeah. So and where does this confidentially confidentiality start and end? Yeah. And and how can we protect our clients? And I think that’s a big topic we still need to discuss within the industry. Because I think AI can bring a lot of great things and impact, but we also need to have more ethical frameworks around that. And and not only ethical, also on how we build them. Yeah. So to have more safeguards. Yeah. Like have the if you just hop on chat GPT, you can use an amazing prompt and then start a coaching conversation. But then how are you looked in? You know, like, how are you gonna share your data? What’s gonna happen if the conversation goes into, let’s say, not aligned, yeah, path? Yeah. Because the CHEAP, of course, is not aligned to actually keep in the ethical framework of such, you know, like, conversations. So, yeah, there are a lot of topics around that this that needs to be considered. Right. Yeah. No.

Rachel Cossar: I think, I think that it’s it’s a a a quickly evolving landscape. You know, one thing that we’ve noticed is we’re we’re, like, building the plane as we fly it in partner ship with our clients. So our clients are also trying to figure out, like, their ethical AI, boundaries and and limitations and and needs. Right? And so that’s, certainly frustrating, I think, for everyone, but it’s, like, such a necessary when we have to go through that to get to a point where we can know, like, what is required and what is what kind of safeguards we need to ensure are in place in order for the platform to be effective. Because at the end of the day, you want people to feel like they can show up in a safe space and be authentic and have those authentic conversations to get the value. Yes. Right? Great. So I’m always surprised on how much people really open up even Yes. You know, like, in in an AI conversation. Yeah. Yeah.

Rebecca Rustchman: It sometimes they go really, really deep and sometimes even deeper than they might maybe with a coach, but not all of them, just a certain amount of people. So it’s interesting to see. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Rachel Cossar: And that had come up in in the conversation we had the other day too, right, of, like, us at virtual sapiens being surprised that people, found it a little easier to experiment with the platform because they found that they weren’t, like, being judged by a person. Right? So Yes. It was easier to get some of this, like, personal feedback from the AI because they were like, oh, it doesn’t matter. Like, no one else is gonna see this video, and no one is gonna you know? So and then that was certainly unexpected for us, because I would have assumed prior to all of this data that that people would have found the AI feedback cold. You know? Less warm, less encouraging, or whatever. But but that hasn’t been the case, which is great. So going back to your all of the work that you’re doing in AI literacy and helping coaches really understand some of the options they have in Viva La Coaching and all that, what are some of the biggest learnings or or like, moments that your clients experience when it comes to that work?

Rebecca Rustchman: And with a little bit of guidance, they can actually do it. Yeah. So we have a lot of them coming in and kind of like, I think I really need to learn about this, but I’ve been really scared and I didn’t know on how to where to start and then seeing their excitement. I mean, like, of course, you know, like, you’re pushing the limits constantly that they have to also then overcome. But to see then one day them being like, oh gosh, I don’t know how to do this. And then coming back a few days later, I’m like, I clocked it. I did it. You know, like, I know know how it works. And I now see all these things that I could maybe do. But then also thinking about further. So what does that mean? Because it kicks off a lot of thinking processes that you have to be prepared for. And AI literacy is one I find, like, I I think I just posted something also yesterday. It’s one of the biggest, I find, threats is that people do not educate themselves no matter if they later on use it or not within their coaching, but it’s about the education, about knowing what it is and how you could use it, and then make that informed decision on where and how and when to use it. Yeah. But if you don’t know about it, then it’s it’s really difficult, yeah, to navigate that space. And I see that too many people will be left behind very soon. So, that’s why we actually started this, and we hope that we can excite more people and ignite that little spark and just kind of like they even have to think about how do I add something to my coaching contract. I mean, they most of them use Zoom. There is AI in there as well. Even if they don’t turn it on somehow, their data is being processed, and they don’t sometimes even pick the right service that are according to their location laws and things like that. So there’s a lot of topics to be covered, and we just try to help people navigate that and then feel more safe and and provide also open spaces where people can share a lot of their thoughts as well. So I think that’s actually, a very well received as well currently that we just have. Sometimes just discussions about, so what does what does this do with you? Yeah. So, how do you think that’s gonna change you and your business and your profession, and what are you worried about, and what can the community do to support you there. Right.

Rachel Cossar: And just just for just so people understand a little more concretely, can you share more about the the program and and the format of it and how it all works?

Rebecca Rustchman: So what we came up with was kind of, like, providing people first with the foundations of what actually AI is and why it has such or will have such a great influence on the coaching industry because it’s actually doing a lot of conversations. Yeah. So, and providing you or people with a lot of knowledge about that. And then we have something that we call the practitioner level, so where people can really explore different areas, and work through that in a community with their other, we call them rebels. Yeah. And of course, and that’s where the practical side happens and that where a lot of the dot connecting happens as well and where we create the real value. It’s also an ICF accredited, training, where we just really cover everything from ideation to using it for content generation, for creating insights, yeah, through note taking and your coaching sessions that were that’s where you guys would come come in. And then also how to build your little kind of like AI coaching assistance, on different platforms. So we just try to cover all these areas. And then for those that have passed that practitioner level, we now started to offer different master classes. So it’s really like a three level kind of like, literacy training that we do. And then we have the whole community where, we offer usually on a monthly base different like open spaces, prompting clinics, just community meetups where people can just like connect and share, you know, some of their latest findings than where we, of course, then celebrate new certificates and new graduates from the program. So Yeah. That’s I mean, it’s wonderful.

Rachel Cossar: I think, you know, the community aspect of it, the safe space aspect of it, the educational aspect of it meets so many dire needs, you know, certainly in the coaching industry, but I’m sure also beyond. So, that’s fantastic. How many people so far have gone through the program? Oh, gosh.

Rebecca Rustchman: I just did a whole other I think it’s around 20 now that have done the rebel course. They are more that did the rookie course, and then we already have a lot of graduates from the master classes. Amazing.

Rachel Cossar: So we we I mean, like, we only started last year October, so we just finished the second batch, the second cohort.

Rebecca Rustchman: The third one is coming out soon. And the first one was, I think, 18 people. Not all of them are yet certified, and the second one was around 10 people going through it Because we try to keep it small so we can all really work together. Yeah. And so we don’t really have huge cohorts, but it’s a very close community then. Yeah. That’s awesome.

Rachel Cossar: Rebecca, thank you so much for joining and sharing your insights. Is there anything else that you’d like to share with our audience today?

Rebecca Rustchman: What I really always love to share is just go out there and explore and see and and don’t be scared. I mean, it’s like doing baby steps. Yeah. One step after the next. And no matter how overwhelmed you will feel, I still feel overwhelmed. So, and I still keep on doing the next steps. Yeah, that take me back. Because if you do one step every day, you’re gonna have 365 steps at the end of the year and learn so much more. So Yeah. Go out there and learn more. Wonderful.

Rachel Cossar: And what’s the best way people can get in touch with you, follow your work? I mean, I’m mostly on LinkedIn.

Rebecca Rustchman: So you can if you put in my name, you probably won’t find anybody else. And I also write a, a newsletter, which I try to do biweekly. It doesn’t always happen, but I just release the light latest one. And then you can hop on vivalacoaching.com and learn more about what we’re doing there. Wonderful. Awesome.

Rachel Cossar: Well, thank you so much again for sharing your insights and your time. And My pleasure. Thank you to our community as always for joining. We’ll see you next time.