Communicating Across Cultures in a Virtual World

Rachel Cossar: Hello, everyone, and welcome to conversations in the future of work, where we invite leaders coaches and researchers to share their thoughts on where we’re going in this new world of work and how to best prepare. Today, I’m joined by the incredible Rosemary Ravi. Who is an executive bilingual speaker coach. And works with the leaders all over the world. And I’d like to actually pass it over to you, Rosemary right away. So you can share some of the key points of your background. That are most relevant today.

Rosemary Ravinal: Yes, thank you for the opportunity to be with you today. The the work I’m doing is an extension of decades of work as a corporate communications leader, as a spokesperson as a media, host personality. Because that’s the world that I really felt I had relevance. But after a while, I noticed that I really wanted to be the person who was doing the talking for myself, Doing being the one to to voice opinions and to… It just sort of stake my my claim on the the area of executive coaching for purposes of improving their communication. So I was speaking of behalf of other people as this spokesperson, but now I am helping others rise up. And elevate their ability to lead. We know the soft skills include to a large measure the ability to communicate. That’s been proven. And so I am that person. I hope to be the executive speaker whisperer really to help executives, Ceo, c level as well as director level and emerging leaders. Really develop the confidence they need to be able to have an impact when they speak.

Rachel Cossar: Right. Absolutely. And it’s it’s such important work. I feel like… Especially over the past few years, you know, we’ve gone over these changes these disruptions in the workforce that have affected the way we communicate specifically. So question for you is how what are some of the main ways you’ve seen the world of communication evolve.

Rosemary Ravinal: It’s evolving in many different directions. Generally, everything that I’ve observed and research shows that there is still a huge gap in the the ability to actually move the needle in terms of of of profit, productivity. In retention of employees or ability to recruit. There is a sense of complacency that they’re are all these tools, yet how do we populate those tools, those modalities. How do we step up and toggle between a virtual meeting with the team, a follow up email. A slack message, a a text how do we use those with knowledge and real awareness that they each have a different purpose. And then one big lag in the research as well as observations that I’ve made over the last few years is that people have d fluency, when it comes time to speak. No, they can they can write emails, right proposals and presentations, not necessarily give them properly, but they can do this, but they lack the ability to articulate person to person.

Rachel Cossar: Right.

Rosemary Ravinal: To build those human bonds that really hold the organizations together.

Rachel Cossar: Right. Right. And I love that dis fluency point. Right? Because yes, you work with leaders who are multilingual ling and who… In some cases, English may be the second language. But I think across the board, right? There’s this new concept I’ve been considering called in person virtual fluency, which helps… Specifically for that live, human to human conversation helps people switch seamlessly between… Okay. Here I am. In my home office, connecting over video. And now here I am on a stage in front of hundreds of people. You know, it… It’s a very different vantage point for your audience. And so the way you communicate has to change. So that’s… It… It’s a fascinating skill but, you know, I think is

Rosemary Ravinal: It it is and it really worked acquire people to step up. And one another thing that’s really crucial People quite don’t understand is that every audience is different.

Rachel Cossar: No. Yep.

Rosemary Ravinal: And so you have a virtual audience. You have a hybrid audience it’s very difficult to keep attention. And to really convey important information in the hybrid setting. You really have to have a totally different approach to hybrid meetings. Then it’s audience sizes, the types of audience Are they people who are in your world who speak your jargon or are they people who are in other businesses where you have to be much more democratic and the way you approach the topic. That being able to be versatile

Rachel Cossar: Right.

Rosemary Ravinal: and adapt because at the end of the day, another very important message is that Your ability to communicate is totally dependent on the audiences need. From you. What do they need? What are their pain points and how can you address them? And help them be better.

Rachel Cossar: Yep. Absolutely. So given that you work with multilingual speakers and leaders. What are some of the challenges And like so number one, what are some of the challenges? But the number two, what are some of the opportunities that you think they can unlock in a virtual conversation specifically.

Rosemary Ravinal: Working your course cultures still continues to be difficult. The world that I am most comfortable in is the world of spanish english speakers. And even there, given that there’s twenty two countries, where Spanish is the is the mother tongue. There is still a a lot to learn. In terms of how to that the non nuances Right? The the the the tremendous importance of the nonverbal of the body length of expressions. The formalities that we need to employment when we’re addressing people. We don’t know. You know, in Spanish the there area is a formal tense. When we say you, you say, two if it’s informal and who instead if it’s formal, Well, how do you go back and forth? How do you develop some kind of a a relationship, a closeness, but still retain formalities and protocol. And then how long should a meeting be, how how much should it be based on words and and and spoken word versus visual and and nonverbal, in other words visual imagery that you that you’re conveying. And one very important thing that I find is when you have a meeting with people from different countries, having ask them, what they need, ask them how best to convey the messages. What are the what what are the the terminology, perhaps that they don’t understand. What what are some of the things that they need from their end, maybe sometimes it’s as simple as speaking more slowly. Or using closed captioning, at so simultaneously to help people understand.

Rachel Cossar: Right. Right.

Rosemary Ravinal: There’s… As you know, this there’s very often a distortion of sound when you’re when you’re working through virtual platforms So if you don’t, if you’re not a native speaker, and you hear some word, And you don’t know what it is. Your attention first is gonna be drawn on drawn to what that word was. And then you won’t be necessarily listening to what follows.

Rachel Cossar: Right.

Rosemary Ravinal: And then you’ll have you’ll have a gap. You’ll have a disconnect there. So I think all these things are actually remarkably simple and common sense. But very often, we forget to think about them.

Rachel Cossar: Right. And what is interesting about what you shared there towards the end about. Actually taking the time to ask your audience or your fellow speakers, you know, what is it that I can do to just really make sure that we’re communicating here. In some of those some of those requests are facilitated virtually, like the having the closed captioning, you know, having different ways that technology can support understanding. That’s something that is harder to do in person than it is to do virtually. So it’s interesting to see It’s really interesting to note I think, in which cases virtual the virtual channel can be beneficial.

Rosemary Ravinal: Definitely. Yes. And we know that in some cases there’s simultaneous interpretation available through some platforms. So that that is also a a big plus. With with caution,

Rachel Cossar: Right.

Rosemary Ravinal: because there is interpretation that is industry specific that is that has the proper terminology and

Rachel Cossar: Right.

Rosemary Ravinal: you know, the the translation of certain words and and and phrases and there’s some that serve… To do nothing more than to cloud the understanding. So all of that has a lot of different aspects that deserve attention and leaders communication leaders need to understand all those and prepare accordingly. Think a lot of what we’re seeing is that communicating effectively requires preparation. Whether it be a virtual meeting or in person meeting. You really have to set an intention

Rachel Cossar: Right.

Rosemary Ravinal: you have to have a clear, defined purpose. What do you want to achieve? Otherwise, you end up just talking to hear yourself. Talk.

Rachel Cossar: Right. Right. And do you feel like, what… Do you feel that people view video communication as somehow secondary to in person? Or do you think that’s changed?

Rosemary Ravinal: I think people still fear this this medium.

Rachel Cossar: Yeah.

Rosemary Ravinal: I know of very few people who say, yep. Zoom meeting, let’s do it. Let’s jump right in there. I’m ready.

Rachel Cossar: Right.

Rosemary Ravinal: Most people will say do we have to? Is it really necessary? Do I have to turn my camera on? And I’m very much a believer as I know you are of having the

Rachel Cossar: Yeah.

Rosemary Ravinal: full dimension of communication with a nonverbal being essential to really understanding.

Rachel Cossar: Right.

Rosemary Ravinal: And so I find that there’s still a hesitation. And in then the hesitation, but still. There is a gap in understanding. Of the Zoom iq is not there. Now, I I created early on in twenty twenty, something called the Zoom score. And think was a sort of a gimmicky ten point system to make sure that you were doing things right on Zoom. Right? From showing up properly lit to framing yourself in the shot, you have in your background, speak to who you are, and what you stand for.

Rachel Cossar: Yeah.

Rosemary Ravinal: People just not doing that. They’re still showing up poorly lit.

Rachel Cossar: Right.

Rosemary Ravinal: Or in the car with the car moving

Rachel Cossar: Right

Rosemary Ravinal: It’s it’s interesting, But I think that they… It it hasn’t quite hit a breaking point yet.

Rachel Cossar: Right. Okay

Rosemary Ravinal: It has to have a consequence. When these glitches or gaps in understanding start to really have an impact on the bottom line, many different factors in business, credibility, authority, then people will start to to adapt. But it’s been very difficult to get people to really step up

Rachel Cossar: Okay

Rosemary Ravinal: to embracing this and doing it properly. For example, would you send an email that has miss billings in it? Is rather difficult because Ai usually correcting it for us. But would you send something that is poorly poorly written that is incomplete that has typos you wouldn’t put your name on something like that. Similarly, would you show up and do your your version of an email in a in in a virtual presence. Would you do that? No? No. So if you know that everything that you do, is speaks to your reputation, your brand. Then people might start to take this more seriously.

Rachel Cossar: Right. Yeah. No. I agree a hundred I always feel like when we’re when we’re in conversation, it’s, like, the same we’re you’re living such a similar experience at virtual Sapiens, you know, we do a lot of work. With helping people get access to that feedback more easily and more consistently. So with with that, I’d like to actually turn to some technology questions and and specifically, as I I know you’re you’re an amazing champion of really trying out technology and Ai and seeing how we can support your work. So where do you see… Like, where does Ai? Come into this conversation for you.

Rosemary Ravinal: It’s it’s interesting. I… It’s it’s here to stay clearly. And and with virtual Sapiens, you… You… You… You’re doing amazing work, really showing people giving them a metric of how they’re forming based on proven standards. So congratulations for that.

Rachel Cossar: Thank you.

Rosemary Ravinal: The world needs your services more and more. Ai is sort of a… It’s a love hate relationship.

Rachel Cossar: Yeah.

Rosemary Ravinal: Right? We we have it already installed in the software we use every day. But there is no substitution for the human element. And when it comes to, you know, to to language models, to replicating our images, our likeness, and having avatars that that do our bidding That’s where I think is really breaks down. I think people are now developing a high higher standard of really wanting to have the authenticity. Of knowing that the source was a human being.

Rachel Cossar: Yes. Yes.

Rosemary Ravinal: And so there there needs to be a time and a place for everything. You know, when you have a, you know, a a voice recognition on a on a a call center, You know, you’re calling your credit card, You have a question. In invariably, you are going to be your voice is going to be answered by by a mechanical voice. Right? By artificial voice. Who’s gonna to interpret what the nature is of your query and try to expedite that with us sending you to a live representative. Which more closely to the company. But that up a while starts to really become an aggravation because you wanna speak to a live person who really is gonna listen to your situation. This is not a transaction. Maybe it’s a complaint. Maybe it’s a problem.

Rachel Cossar: Right.

Rosemary Ravinal: And you want to have a dialogue with someone. And so increasingly, there is a… Even with tele marketing. Forget about tele marketing. Were you hear a boy saying? Hello? Hello? This is Sally.

Rachel Cossar: Yeah.

Rosemary Ravinal: And then can say, oh a sweet voice, they realize that it’s, you know, it’s

Rachel Cossar: Yes. Yes

Rosemary Ravinal: it’s a chatbot bot. So it’s it it’s there’s there’s a time in a place, but I think what we’re finding is that there is more of a recognition that the human voice, that the quality of empathy that comes from human connection. Is inc, irr replaceable. There’s no substitution for that. And I hope that as business leaders recognize recognized that there needs to be a lane carved out for that face to face human to human. Then perhaps they’ll start to invest more in helping people do it better. And recognize that everyone has the potential, which is simply never taught or sometimes we’re not incentivized to do this properly.

Rachel Cossar: Right. Absolutely. And everything you’re saying just points to the critical nature of your work. Right? Because if now starting to heat was the much more scalable, much more cost effective. An Avatar Ai bought version of conversation. You know, we as humans have to make sure that we’ve developed the skills of empathy, rapport building, you know, trust, and and that the way we show up really is in honor of that. Just the other day I was speaking with a large technology company. And they were like, oh, well, you know, would you consider just using the technology to fix the problem itself instead of try and to help the human build a new skill. It’s like, you know, we are gonna like, at Virtual Savings were focused only on helping humans become more human and and develop those beautiful aspects of our humanity we’re we’re not interested in kind of deep faking and providing you with an Avatar so you can go to the bathroom room while your avatar kinda connects with this person that you’re trying to build a relationship with. But, you know, I I think the verdict is still out, we’ll see we’ll see where the world goes. It’s kind of we’re we’re kinda teeter on an interesting edge.

Rosemary Ravinal: I I believe that it’s going to be again, there’s gonna be more of a call for the soft skill I’m seeing it in the number of request that I get for coaching. I’m seeing it in the various. You know, pods on Linkedin that I belong to where these these topics are discussed I’m seeing it in in toast masters, increasing membership in toast masters for example, of people aren’t recognizing that they need to be able to… Not only build confidence, but actually you know that they have something important to say.

Rachel Cossar: Right.

Rosemary Ravinal: And it’s and and I think it’s something that Gen z, I I’m I’m hopeful that the newest youngest generation is recognizing now that they cannot communicate your devices alone. That they’re going to need to be able to do that interview for college admission. Or in internship, Now, for a grant, even for a marriage proposal, And and and I’m finding more and more people are coming to me. Parents asking you a help there nineteen, eighteen year old, a child, be able to do an interview prop You know, with all of the proper body language looking at the camera, or looking face to face and having the po the posture you know, the the the presence. To really say I’m the candidate. I’m the one year did you should select, you know, I’m might… Am a a leader, should and you say that with all of you and including the tone of voice,

Rachel Cossar: Yes.

Rosemary Ravinal: So I’m I’m hopeful that those request or an indication that there is a increasing awareness of the importance of bringing that to future generations.

Rachel Cossar: Right. Absolutely. Well, honestly, I mean, you you say it says simply. And and with that, I think we’ll we’ll we’ll wrap this conversation up for today. But I’d love to thank you Rosemary for being here. And where can our audience connect with you or or just hear more about you and and all of your solid leadership

Rosemary Ravinal: Rosemary raven dot com. It’s it’s my website. You’ll see links to my tedx. Talk, which is about slay the dragons of bad communication, and that that lays out actually a formula for how to overcome your obstacles. And you’ll see my Youtube, You’ll see my blog in because of scribe for weekly blogs. And in this week, actually I have one about eye contact. Which I know that you you you are very, very keen on that obviously with your virtual sapiens. So please follow me and thank you for the opportunity to share my message Thank you for the work you do, Rachel. And I hope to be invited again.

Rachel Cossar: Awesome. Wonderful. Well thank, Rosemary, and thanks to everyone for listening.

Rosemary Ravinal: Okay.

Rachel Cossar: Great. Awesome. Well, that was super smooth.

Rosemary Ravinal: Would that without her dog barking. Yeah. I’m sorry. Poor Baby he was he was really uncomfortable. No No. No.

Rachel Cossar: Oh, my gosh. Well I’m really glad that we… I’m really glad we stopped.

Rosemary Ravinal: Yeah. And when I throw him the greedy and he doesn’t stop,

Rachel Cossar: Yeah.

Rosemary Ravinal: It’s that it’s that he’s really. He’s he’s he’s hurting.

Rachel Cossar: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s too bad. But I think this was, like fantastic conversation. Thanks for being so articulate as always.

Rosemary Ravinal: Thank you. I hope that you get a lot of listeners and that this helps really boost your business. I’ve told me the idea of doing this. I I know how much work goes into it. I will be doing a master communicator minute series, which is gonna live on Youtube. And I’m thinking of doing a master class probably the first quarter of next year to invite a people to be part of a master small mas,

Rachel Cossar: Yep.

Rosemary Ravinal: But the work continues. So thank thank you for this and hope to see you in person soon.

Rachel Cossar: Yeah. Yes. Actually, I’ll be in Miami October eleventh through the twenty first.

Rosemary Ravinal: Okay.

Rachel Cossar: If you’re around, maybe we could grab a coffee or lunch or something.

Rosemary Ravinal: Yeah. I I am around. I’m missing on the twenty first in fact, I’m leaving. I’m doing a book event in in Hartford, you know, that I c authored a book quote the difference.

Rachel Cossar: Yes.

Rosemary Ravinal: Which is not about public speaking. It’s about It’s about loss current and personal transformation, personal essays.

Rachel Cossar: Yeah. Yes.

Rosemary Ravinal: And the book has gone has done very well. Through a lot of word mouth and events and and author events. And so we had… One in Miami, We have one in New York. Now we’re going to Hartford, Connecticut. Who we’re being hosted by a group there. So I’ll being in in the Hartford area,

Rachel Cossar: Wonderful

Rosemary Ravinal: the twenty first through twenty fourth. So your… Your dates in Miami are perfect.

Rachel Cossar: Okay. Perfect. Alright. Well I’ll message you… After after this, and we can find a time just to lock it in. And then your episode should be coming out either either next week or two weeks after that, I have to see topic wise, which one makes most sense. But I’ll let you know what

Rosemary Ravinal: Okay. Whenever so I can… I I can promote it.

Rachel Cossar: in advancement going right? Yeah. And then I’ll send you some materials you can share yourself. Drinks,

Rosemary Ravinal: Yes. Beautiful. Thank you, Rachel.

Rachel Cossar: My pleasure. So nice to see you, rosemary. Alright.