Leading with Heart and Edge: Coaching in a Complex World

Rachel Cossar: Hello, everyone, and welcome to season seven of Conversations in the Future of Work. I am your host, Rachel Kosser, Co founder and CEO at Virtual Sapiens AI Roleplaying Coaching, and leader of this podcast, Conversations in the Future of Work, thinking about how our crazy world is evolving from multiple different perspectives and angles. This is the first episode of this season and I couldn’t be more thrilled to welcome good friend David Morelli, from Owl Hub. So welcome, David. Thank you so much.

David Morelli: I am delighted to be here with you, Rachel, and, I’m looking forward to our conversation today. Absolutely.

Rachel Cossar: So if you wanted to share a little bit about your background, what you’re up to now. Sure. Yeah.

David Morelli: So I’ve been in executive coaching and leadership development for almost thirty years. And, I did my PhD in studying some of the world’s best coaches to find out, like, what they actually say and do inside of their conversations. And then I realized that what I discovered there, which we’re gonna be talking about, today, the respect styles, what I discovered is that those styles are not only used by coaches, they’re also used by leaders. And so I’m excited to share, you know, some insights hopefully that will be, supportive of of people who are listening. So Awesome. Awesome. So we’re gonna dive right in.

Rachel Cossar: You you created respect coaching, and I’m gonna ask you to go through respect for for everyone just so we really know what we’re dealing with, based on on your doctoral research as you said. So if you don’t mind just going over, again, high level what that acronym means and stands for, and then what unique insights you mentioned it also applies to leadership in addition to coaching. What unique, leadership insights did this uncover? Yeah.

David Morelli: So the what I was on the hunt for are are there you know, we we know about leadership styles. Right? Authentic leadership, servant leadership, etcetera. But there was nothing in coaching literature called styles. So I was like, well, do coaches use styles? And if so, what are they? And so I was searching for this combination of sort of language that they’re using and why they’re using that language and seeing other patterns here. And so I found that there are seven distinct styles that these coaches use, and they weave in and out of all of them. And so sometimes the so the RESPECT is an acronym. The r stands for the rallier, which is kind of that goal orientation. You’re trying to get people to take action. The e, the is the first e is the educator. So it’s you’re helping them fill in knowledge and skill gaps. The s is for strategist to help them solve complex problems. The p for provocateur is about challenging their thinking, getting them to be sort of that that critical thinking level. E for explorer is about creativity, innovation, curiosity, and helping them make new discoveries. C for confidant is all about being there sort of in that human to human way where you’re creating a safe space for them. And then transformer is about helping them become a better version of themselves through a process of change. So respect is rallyer, educator, strategist, provocateur, explorer, confidant, and transformer.

Rachel Cossar: So I remember we did, like, a mini coaching session where you it it was so it was so short, but it was very poignant because you actually went through each of these coaching styles via different types of questions. And it was interesting because I think I’d mentioned to you, and I’m sure so many people listening to this have experienced someone who goes more into, like, the provocateur or the challenger. Right? And they kind of stick to that, and that’s their main style. And, of course, that can be very impactful. But what was so wonderful about this coaching experience that you gave me following this method was that it felt very balanced and well rounded. Can you share more? Because I found it very interesting. There’s a way that you also kind of break down the percentage of time kind of spent based on each and, like, how that kind of evolves and impacts things as well. Yeah. And like you alluded to, a lot of people have defaults.

David Morelli: Right? Sometimes people are just the provocateur. They’re always the the one poking holes. Or sometimes they’re just the strategist where I’m they’re trying to fix everything that’s in front of me. It doesn’t matter whether it needs to be fixed or not. Right? I’m gonna try and fix it or or whatever. Mhmm. And so people centralize around two to three generally, but we need all seven. To your point, it’s a well rounded conversation. So in that interaction, by the way, just stepping back, literally everything we say and do, there’s a style or set of styles behind it. Right? So if I ask you, like, hey, what’s a goal that you have for this episode? Right? That would be a rallier type of question. Right? But if I say, hey, what problem are you hoping this solves for the listeners? That would end up being more of a strategist. Or, hey. What do you know about, coaching already that applies to the that would be the educator where you’re kind of eliciting knowledge. Provocateur, what assumptions are people maybe making that aren’t valid for how they’re thinking about coaching today? Right? That would be the provocateur. Yeah. Right? And so each one, the explorer being, hey. Know, what matters here? The confidant, hey, how are you feeling about this? Or the transformer is, things like, well, who do you are you hoping that people become by listening to this episode? Right? And hopefully becoming a better version of themselves, more capable, more powerful, etcetera. So every single and those were Explorer Confidential Formers. So, every single thing that we say, whether it’s a statement or a question, has a style already embedded in it. Yeah. And yet, to your point, most people have tendencies where they centralize around a few. And this is true of leaders. Right? We have data around that. We have data around what coaches usually do, which is actually different than leaders. But they’re high in a couple, and then they’re low in usually two to three as well. And that creates the overuse and underuse actually creates problems for people. Right. Right.

Rachel Cossar: And so we are gonna get into that a little bit in a second. I I’d like to know also how organizations are applying this respect coaching style. Yeah.

David Morelli: So people are, doing it in lots of different ways. So I have an an example. One is the Allstate. That’s become the official model of Allstate. And so, they yeah. Which is cool. Yeah. So they’re bringing it into their leadership programs and, coaching programs and other things like that. It’s coming into Capital One. Capital One is bringing it into their internal coaching cadre of people and then we’ll sort of extend from there probably into leadership programs, but they’re starting it first with their own internal coaches, which is great. So that’s one way. But another organization, they said, you know what? We wanna create a coaching culture, and to do it, we’re gonna give this assessment and, this, you know, hour training, by the way, by people who are trained by us to go in and train at their company. Right? So it’s an HR person and somebody who is internal coach. They took it. They gave it a they gave it to everybody, and their job satisfaction jumped a 180% in only three months. Right. And it stuck for two years later. It’s now two years later, and it’s been a permanent culture change. Right? So there’s lots of different applications of this inside of organizations. Yeah.

Rachel Cossar: I think the other thing that’s really fascinating about this is that underlying these different styles is empowering people who, to your point, like, may not be coaches. They could be, right, an HR leader, manager, people manager, engineer, like, with the a whole array or framework towards asking really great questions Yeah. And not getting stuck in asking maybe, like, the same safe question that you’re, like, you you’re wired or you you have your kind of muscle memory around asking. And I think when people are asking the right and appropriate types of questions for the goals of the conversation, that’s when and then I’m not surprised to hear that employee satisfaction jumped so much because we all know what it’s like to be in conversation with someone who asks really great questions. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah.

David Morelli: And the the big that that I had because honestly, initially, I thought this hey. This is just for leaders. But that organization that I mentioned, they said, you know, we’re gonna imagine a world where anybody could turn to anybody else and give them coaching. And so imagine a frontline person saying, hey. I just ran into this issue. And instead of them saying, oh, bummer. Go talk to the boss about it. They’re like, hey. Well, you know, where are you getting stuck? And there was this way this conversation that got them unstuck without it ever having to rise to the level of going to the boss or the manager. And I, you know, imagine if people are listening and they’re managers themselves, you are probably like, holy cow. Like, I just got to remove half the things that I normally have to deal with that are problems that come to me, and people are independent and thinking about it themselves. And it’s not that you can’t rubber stamp an idea, but there are certain things that you know they shouldn’t even come to you in the first place. Mhmm. And, like, being a, a higher order organization, you have to have more time freed up Yeah. To think at that next level. Well, this is one way to do that and to do it well. Right.

Rachel Cossar: So switching a little bit over to the leaders, you know, who are who are gathering insights based on these assessments. What what kinds of patterns are you seeing with leaders who are taking this? Yeah.

David Morelli: Most leaders, you can kinda see in their one on ones, a pattern of, people come in. They’re like, hey. How was your weekend? Or whatever. You know, sometimes they have that sort of relationship building, if you will, a couple minutes at the start. And then they go into, okay. Great. Let’s jump into your projects. How far along are you? And they start going to the rallier. So the first thing, by the way, was confidant. So you start off they start off with confident relationship building, etcetera. Then they go into this, where are you with your projects? How is the progress coming? You so almost do, like, a status update, right, which is Rallyr. And then they go into, okay. Well, what what we’re doing is we’re searching for problems. So and then they go into strategist. Okay. Well, let’s talk through. And the big mistake that managers make often is they solve problems for the direct report Yep. Rather than to help them work it through themselves. So that that’s the power move within strategies. Every style has a power move, and usually it’s the opposite of what most of us do. Right. But, the power move is to help talk through or partner with them on that strategy or that that solution. And then, you know, they end up going back, like, okay. Great. Well, tell me like, let’s design some actions. What are you gonna so they end up in rally or strategist and confidant. Mhmm. But what they’re missing are helping them build skills that they’re going to need to become more capable. That’s being the educator. Or sometimes they avoid the difficult conversations, which is the provocateur. Mhmm. Yeah. We’ve all been there. Right? Or seen that. Explorer, sometimes we don’t actually ask people, well, what do you think? Or how did you get to this spot? Not from a diagnosis standpoint Yeah. But more from an exploratory help me understand your viewpoint. Yeah. And then so few people get the transformer or the career development conversations about, like, hey. Who do you wanna become and how like, what are you struggling with inside of yourself, and how can I help you move through fear of failure or imposter syndrome or or the other things that are connected to sometimes the internal changes we need to make to fulfill our potential? So that tends to be the the pattern that I see with, most leaders. Right.

Rachel Cossar: And the other interesting thing that we touched on was that these their other coaching models, or even leadership frameworks touch on maybe three out of the seven Yep. Styles. Right? Like, we were talking about grow coaching method, which which, you know and so it’s interesting that and I guess it makes sense that a lot of leaders or managers and coaches would would would have these patterned behaviors that are, leaving out some of those other critical styles. Right? Yeah. Here, there there’s a funny thing.

David Morelli: Do you mind if I just pop in? Funny yeah. So there’s this funny thing that I realized along the way as I was doing this is, how managers learned how to coach. It’s by the way, it’s the number one skill you can have as being a good coach as a manager. This is after a ten year study at Google. They they discovered, hey. If you’re a good coach, you’re great at managing. And what’s pretty funny is so it’s the number one skill, but if you think about where did we learn how to coach, well, most people have only gotten maybe 1% of the training that they’ve gotten in their actual discipline or less, like 1% or less. Mhmm. And where did you learn how to coach? Well, you learned how to coach by people I call it like a bad game of telephone. You learn from other people who have never learned how to coach. Yeah. So the game of telephone starts with a clear message and then we watch it sort of devolve as people pass it along. But coaching never started off with or managers learning how to coach, never started off with a clear message as to what is good coaching and how to do it. And so that’s what respect gives is, hey. Here’s what good coaching looks like from studying 16 of the world’s best coaches Mhmm. To find out what they’re doing and how they’re doing it. Right? So, but if imagine if we did invest in the number one predictor of success as managers and we turn leaders into great coaches. What would be possible, not only for organizations, but for more broadly, their lives, for society. Right? Like, it’s it’s pretty big implications. Absolutely. And building on that. Right?

Rachel Cossar: So what is one strategic move organizations can make now to build to build that coaching culture, which is, to your point, could be, like, game changing in many ways, but also given the world we’re we’re living in now, like, helps you endure some of this disruption and chaos. Yeah. That’s a really great question.

David Morelli: And I think question asking is an under, valued skill. And, there’s a distinction that a lot of people make. And so in the back of our minds, we kind of know this, but we don’t necessarily practice it is, open versus closed questions. Closed ended questions being, like, sometimes leading, like, wouldn’t it be a good idea to dot dot dot, or do you think it’s this? Right? And so you’re sort of, like, asking this closed ended thing that where you’re tend to be driving the yes or no. I like to say that closed ended questions get you one of three answers. Mhmm. Yes, no, and then usually people guess that it’s gonna be maybe or I don’t know. In my experience, it’s usually yes, no, or lied to. Mhmm. Right. But people don’t give you the answer that’s authentic to them. They give you the answer that they think you wanna hear. Right. But an open ended question being start starts off with who, what, when, where, why, or how. Like, hey, where would be the best place for you to focus this week? Or, hey, around this disruption, what do you think are some ideas that you have that could help us with this? Or, how do you think we can endure this disruptive change together? Right? So I think that’s one fundamental part of it, but each of those things is going to have a style behind it. Right? And so that’s that’s that’s sort of tricky part is you’ll still be at the behest of your style preferences usually unless you learn to broaden them. And so, all styles ultimately are relevant to change and enduring disruption. Right. Right. Yeah.

Rachel Cossar: I think that’s really interesting. And I also think well, I guess another question I have. In developing this culture of coaching. What happens when someone unwittingly and not certainly not intentionally, but, like, lands on something that they’re really like, that that actually doesn’t fall within a coaching framework to solve. Like, that actually falls more within, like, therapy or, you know, something like that. Like, what happens then? Yeah.

David Morelli: And that does sometimes hap I mean, it happens already. Right? Like, let’s be honest. Like, it it’s already there. Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah. And so, that’s where I I’d like to pull on the educator a little bit and addresses. I was quoted in the New York Times, magazine in an article around coaching and therapy and Yeah. And so I’d like to say that coaching is present moment looking forwards, typically. Yeah. Therapy, is usually, hey, there’s something of your past that’s coming back and it’s sort of haunting you. Like, it’s sort of present moment looking backwards. Now that’s oversimplified, but relatively speaking, if it has to do with healing or trauma or things like that Yep. That’s not it’s not that styles don’t exist with therapists Yeah. Because they do. The style patterns are still there. But, it’s not really the domain of what coaching has prepared you for. Yeah. And so, compassion, I e confidant, you can have compassion without necessarily delving into it. So that’s that, like, you don’t have to say, woah. I can no longer talk to you. Right? It’s more like, wow. That sounds really challenging. And then you can bring in the educator. That here’s what I feel comfortable addressing. And and so let’s talk about, you know, maybe where could you go to help you get what you need. Yeah. Totally.

Rachel Cossar: I just feel like that’s gonna happen more and more, especially with the younger generation that has really taken on some big terms pretty casually, I think. You know? Like, you hear either self diagnoses around, like, OCD and ADHD or, like, you know, my trauma is, like, almost a a meme now.

David Morelli: And so I feel like that’s gonna come up more and more.

Rachel Cossar: And certainly yeah. Anyways, it’s just kind of a messy space. So it’s helpful, I think Yeah. To think of it in that present forward versus present past so you’re not really getting over, or ahead of your skis, so to speak. Yeah.

David Morelli: And and I find, again, the one of the best things you can do is just, like, we’ve all until now, everybody’s been walking around with all that stuff anyways. Like Yeah. And so it’s a matter of just, like, creating space and compassion for it without being the place where they process it Right. Fully. Right? Like, as a job.

Rachel Cossar: Yep. Right. Yeah.

David Morelli: Totally.

Rachel Cossar: So speaking of thinking ahead and looking forward, what what are you most excited about over the next five years?

David Morelli: Me personally, I’m gonna be writing the Respect Styles book, and, I think that’s gonna be a a good way for it to sort of proliferate in the world. But we have, we’ve already trained, 60 plus, coaches or sorry, not coaches, but trainers in the resex styles. And so I think it’s gonna gain a lot of traction and momentum. We in the last two and a half years, we’re already in, one of the top three of the fortune 500 lists. We have another very large health care company that pretty much everybody knows, those other organizations. So in the next five years, I’m sort of excited to see where this ends up going because, people keep resonating with it, which is kind of cool and weird in a certain way. It was like, oh, I thought I was just sort of doing this nerdy study. But turns out it’s actually kind of maybe helpful. So Yeah. Right. Yeah. It is. Yeah.

Rachel Cossar: It’s it’s it’s I feel like your position as certainly a researcher and now a founder, it’s really special to see something that you obviously very much believe in in, but then have spent a lot of time honing and developing to see it resonating and coming to life with people. That’s really amazing. Yeah.

David Morelli: And and I think that, ahead in the next five years is also what we do with technology and AI and all of that. You know, I know you’re, with Virtual Sapiens making huge strides in that category, and, I think we’re gonna, be looking to at, like, how does this lay into or frame up with, platforms like yours and, others in the world. Like, AI and technology is going to create a lot of disruption, and there’s gonna be a lot of need for helping people figure out how do I relate to this change. And so Yeah. And there’s also a lot more divisiveness in the world than there was. And so conversations, having good conversations that bring people together is also another thing that I’m really excited about, helping to support. Absolutely.

Rachel Cossar: David, thank you so much for coming on the show, being the season opener, and, sharing all your insights. Anything else you’d like to share with the audience?

David Morelli: I am really grateful to you and the great work that you’re doing, how you’re helping to empower people. I think, I really feel, very fortunate to have, started a a good relationship with you. And then for for those listening, you know, I would say, think about the the difference that you wanna make in other people’s lives, the impact that you wanna have, and, hopefully, you can apply not only this show but all the rest, that that Rachel and team produces, to help you along the way. Awesome.

Rachel Cossar: And how can people be in touch with you or follow your work? Yeah. I’m on LinkedIn.

David Morelli: I have, it’s, David Morelli. I think there’s a PhD somewhere in there. So that’s a easy way to do it. Owlhub.com, 0wlhub. I like to say where wise leaders gather. And then, probably, another spot to, to come and check out is, you know, we have a podcast as well. It’s called OwlCast, the leadership and coaching podcast. So, if you have a little extra room for another one including this one, feel free to come check us out. If you only have to pick one, choose this one. Awesome. Appreciate that.

Rachel Cossar: Awesome. Great. Thank you so much everyone for tuning in as always, and we’ll see you next time.