Supercharged Practice - A Blend of Human and AI Impact

Rachel Cossar: Welcome to another episode of conversations in the future of work. I am your host, Rachel Cossar, and I’m thrilled to dive into a very unique perspective of AI and human led coaching on today’s episode. And so I would like to introduce Jacqueline Brudnitsky. Yes. Hi. Welcome. Welcome.

Jacqueline Brodnitzki: Thank you. Yeah. It’s great to great to have you on the show.

Rachel Cossar: You wanna share a little bit about yourself and, you know, what you’re up to these days? Sure. Thank you, Rachel. Well, I’m Jacqueline Brudnitsky.

Jacqueline Brodnitzki: I work for BTS. We’re a global, consulting firm. We help companies with the people side of strategy, and we’re partnered with Rachel and Virtual Sapiens, using your AI enhancements for our digital speak like a leader program that many companies are using. And, I lead our executive and team performance team. And so we’re a global COE that, that helps our account managers and do work for clients around the world in the executive and team performance space. Amazing.

Rachel Cossar: So excited to have you on the show today, and we’re gonna get into a variety of different questions around, you know, how you’re seeing AI evolve in your space from your perspective and especially how AI is helping professionals like yourselves enhance that human led strategic consulting and work. So the first question, just personal to you. Right? Like, I’m really curious to hear from from a lot of people how your own journey becoming familiar with AI and applying it to your work with executives. Like, what was that, or how has that journey been for you? Well, first, I am still a novice.

Jacqueline Brodnitzki: Wanna make that clear. I use AI, yet I well, I would not categorize myself as an advanced superuser. However, over the past couple of years, I’ve been using it personally as well as for work, and it’s really just been a process of experimenting, identifying ways that could help me be more efficient, and then testing testing and learning my way forward. So personally, I’ve used it, to help a family member think about all their different medications they’re taking and any potential interactions that they might have. Between those, we’ve used it for trip itinerary planning and just researching a variety of topics. And at work, we’ve used we have our own BTS chat GPT so that all the information is confidential and, you know, we’re not putting client information out on the web. So we’ve I’ve used it to, take a whole bunch of stakeholder interview information and collate it into a really clear stakeholder report of themes. And it does a terrific job of that, really saving hours of work. And I think the categories and the themes it comes up with are really great. I’ve also used it to draft some articles for me. So I’ve input some past articles I’ve written. It’s gotten to know my writing style, and I’ve input the information that I want it to include. And then I have a first draft that I can work with. And for me, it’s much easier to work on something that’s already started than to start from scratch. And then lastly, I recently created a GPT to take our executive presence three sixty assessment and look at all the data, the 50 to 60 pages of data, and turn it into a six page report to make it easier for us to prepare for insights calls with leaders. I mean But, of course, all of this and the big but is that it all requires heavy editing scrutiny, making sure that the information is accurate, and overlaying our own thinking to make sure that the that it it’s quality output something that we’d want to present to a client. So, you know, it’s it’s really important because it does hallucinate as we know. Yeah.

Rachel Cossar: So have you found that there are certain either repeated ways of communicating that the AI has or things that you’re constantly going to edit? I’m just curious if there are any, like, specific words or a tone that you’re like, oh, that’s, like, not really what we’re going like, do you notice patterns in that sense?

Jacqueline Brodnitzki: I’ve not actually noticed that, but I think maybe it’s because I’ve given it the input. Mhmm. And I think maybe if it’s more free form that sometimes the messaging and the tone that’s coming back wouldn’t be something that someone would want to use. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No.

Rachel Cossar: I just asked because, I think those are all such fantastic use cases for AI, both on the personal and professional side. Mhmm. Right? It’s like having that assistant on demand, and and it just helps you go from zero to somewhere, right, with a little bit of help. The one thing a couple of things that I’ve noticed. Just just I’d be curious if you start looking out for these, if you you start noticing them, or if it’s maybe just, something that’s really only showing up in the general open more more open source LLMs. The word delve comes up a lot. And so whenever I see content out there, that’s like, we’re gonna delve into this topic. And and, like, we see it with this because there’s AI, as part of this platform too in the summaries. And anytime I see delve, I’m like, gotta change that word just because it’s so obvious. Right. Right. Of course. The em dashes. Yes. Exactly.

Jacqueline Brodnitzki: That’s another word. Yes. Exactly. Exactly.

Rachel Cossar: That and, like, some, like, specific emoji use. Like, it’s just it’s so funny. The little there are tells Right. Right. Which I’m sure that they’ll keep there will be more newer tells or whatever, but Yeah. Just funny to kinda keep an eye out for. Right.

Jacqueline Brodnitzki: What what I’ve done when the especially when the GPT wasn’t creating what I wanted it to create is ask it to coach me how to ask it for what I was wanting. And that was really valuable because it would give me instructions, but then, of course, I found those weren’t foolproof either. Yeah. So the instructions sometimes work, not always work. So it it requires a lot of patience. Yes. Yeah. And asking to your point, asking the right questions. Yes. Yes.

Rachel Cossar: Yes.

Jacqueline Brodnitzki: Then I did get a little insulted by it. It did say, well, you’re very specific, and you know what you want. So That’s right. Sounded like the a veiled compliment, really. That’s funny.

Rachel Cossar: Well, that actually fits perfectly to the next question of, like, have there been some big surprises for you, good or good or bad, right, in in the work that you’ve done with AI to date? Yeah.

Jacqueline Brodnitzki: I think from the bad perspective is the hallucination, the not being consistent, the not always even though I thought I had agreement with the GPT, we really weren’t in agreement. Just the fact that everything needs to be so thoroughly checked and and that we still need to do the real thinking. Mhmm. Yeah. I I but I actually think that’s a good thing.

Rachel Cossar: Yes.

Jacqueline Brodnitzki: So from the good perspective, sometimes it can come up with a better synopsis than I would. I really like how it comes up with themes that identifies, you know, all of the input. And for the most part, we’ll create a really lovely report of themes that I can then, you know, spend a little bit of time editing. It can analyze the amount of data it analyzes quickly and, how smartly it looks at the data and identifies patterns. For example, you know, our executive presence assessment has 15 facets, and it’s very contextual in that we ask leaders to tell us what is their business context so that we can make sure that when we’re debriefing and talking through them in their insights call that we’re making sure that we’re focusing on the things that will help them drive their business forward. And at first, I was asking it to tell me what are the three high highest rated facets and three lowest rated facets. And what it did is it looked at what did it think were the three lowest rated facets related to the business context Mhmm. Which is something that we would do as advisers, and I was surprised that it would do as well. Right. And so I I that was a nice surprise. Yeah.

Rachel Cossar: It’s interesting because and we’ve noticed this too with virtual sapiens. Right? There’s, there are things that we would assume AI would just understand because they’re so inerrant in our logic or based on our experience. We don’t even think about something in in, like, a non assumed way. And then you see the outcome, and you’re like, oh, okay. So I needed to actually needed to place guardrails around that as well. And it’s interesting. Like so, again, with virtual sapiens, we see this with because we want our AI role play, for example, to be very emotionally intelligent and attuned, and we want it to be able to pick up on the emotional tone that the individual user is using, but then also reflect an emotional tone of its own. Mhmm. And it’s been really hard to dial in the persona so that it’s not, like, totally exaggerated to the point where, like, you can’t even have a conversation with it, but not so subtle that you’re not able to pick up on the persona. And then the other hilarious thing that happened that we hadn’t even considered was that the AI started, like, describing its emotions while it was talking. Oh. I thought it was like a script. Like, it would be like, it like, entered stage left, but it would be like, you know, smiled mischievously. And then you’d be like, oh, no. Don’t don’t say it. Just do it. Hey. Good. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s just funny because, I mean, AI can be scary good sometimes. Yes. But at the same time, it can also it’s not it’s not human. And so there are certain contextual things or certain, like, levels of nuance that it will just not know unless you tell it specifically. And so having that human in the loop is so critical. Yes. Yeah.

Jacqueline Brodnitzki: One of the other great, things about it are is how we’re working together. Just how your virtual sapiens, how you’ve enabled our digital speak program to allow leaders to practice for high stakes presentations, challenging conversations. We had one executive tell us that practicing with the tool for one hour saved him fifteen hours of practice on his own. Yeah. And the the reporting is incredible to be able to look at all the filler words that we use, to look at, gestures. And, you know, one time it told me that I needed to wear more jewelry. Are you serious? Oh my god.

Rachel Cossar: That’s hilarious. Yeah. Yeah. That’s hilarious. Yeah. Looks at posture and also the really important things. Yeah. Yeah. No. Absolutely. I mean, we the AI is, like, intended to be reflective in terms of, like, these are the things that it’s picking up on from either a computer vision or, like, nonverbal or verbal perspective, and then leave it out to the user to decide what they think resonates or what they think will serve their intention. Right. Right? And that’s kind of the other, like, finding the balance between the AI’s job and then the human’s job. And we feel that when it comes to actually integrating or making decisions in terms of which behaviors they would like to lean into or would like to avoid or whatever, that’s always up to the user. And, ideally, the user in partnership with their coach. Right. Right. Right. Yes. Absolutely.

Jacqueline Brodnitzki: Yeah. Yeah. So interesting.

Rachel Cossar: So so, you’ve mentioned a number of ways that you’re using AI. Looking ahead, do you foresee any really interesting unlocks or are you ever like, oh, if we could get to a point where AI could do x, y, or z, that would really take it to the next level. Do you have any thoughts around that? Well, I just think about it in terms of leadership.

Jacqueline Brodnitzki: And so right now, so many leaders, clients of ours are learning how to use AI, and they’re also needing to learn how to lead in a world that’s being shaped by AI. And I was just reading a McKinsey article called the inner game of women CEOs. This applies to all CEOs, But it talks about how important human centric attributes, like being self aware, being humble, being resilient, how important those are going to be. And so I think it’s all about, you know, how do we help organizations shift behaviorally, and how do we help leaders think differently? How do we help them enable their teams to collaborate differently and to make decisions, in AI augmented environments. I think it’s going to be really, really important. And so the human side of leadership is going to maybe even become more important than it ever has been. Mhmm. And, and so I think we can’t lose sight of that. Right. I was actually thinking about that exact thing.

Rachel Cossar: So we’re doing some big website updates and just really thinking about, like, what what is the deep need that our platform can support. And because because, a lot of the world is hybrid, there’s in person, there’s virtual, There’s such tech enabled. There’s such AI enabled, you know, content and, that really focusing on human skills. Mhmm. Right? These you know, I’ve always had an issue with this, like, soft skill classification. Right. It’s not soft. It’s strategic.

Jacqueline Brodnitzki: It’s important. It’s invaluable. It’s critical now more than ever. Mhmm. Exactly.

Rachel Cossar: And that I think there’s, like, a real amount of urgency around developing today and tomorrow’s leaders to be able to, you know, identify their values and then communicate and behave in accordance to those values. Because without that framework, I think it’s so easy to get lost, and we’re dealing with so many new, you know, new events that are, oh, I don’t have. Like, I don’t the the CEO before me just didn’t have to deal with that or or this in that way. And so so you kind of have to have that framework, those leadership frameworks in order to be able to lead an entire organization through that uncertainty. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

Jacqueline Brodnitzki: And I think in all the ways that AI isn’t better than us, like in terms of context, conscience, curiosity, that makes it more and more important for leaders to demonstrate those qualities and to bring that into the work environment. And so, yeah, I think it’s it’s interesting how this I don’t know how the evolution will play out. Yeah. Do you have any ideas, Rachel? I’m curious what you’re imagining for the future. Yeah.

Rachel Cossar: I mean, I think that at least from what we’re observing is that a lot of companies are still really trying to develop their processes around AI in terms of, you know, what should be allowed in what ways, what’s considered ethical. Like, what what are I I think and and I think that that’s necessary work. At the same time, I don’t think that there’s a way to know. Yeah. No. And so I think companies have to kind of, I’ve like, decide like, take their stance in terms of, like, like, to what level are we going to be Mhmm. You know, AI powered? And then how can we ensure that the human skills and the human touch are not lost? Right? And and I think a perfect example of this that we see a lot is, like, you know, there are some companies who develop AI technologies to replace to replace the human even from a very personal level, right, to clone to clone someone’s video and then have that video kind of be deployed as an outbound sales approach. Right? And so, of course, like, at face value, you’re like, well, if it’s done really well, then that’s that’s that’s great. But I’m kind of like, I don’t know. Like, I think out outbound and outbound sales and hours is already so impersonal that, like right. Don’t we want to be helping people connect human to human and, like, to ensure that there’s, like, a certified human on the other side and it’s all, like, not like a deep fake? Or even in meetings where, like, it’s just, like, bots. But people are sending their bots to meetings. You know? And I’m like, I don’t think a human wants to be in a meeting with, like, five other bots. Right. Right. Right? So I do feel like there needs to be a line drawn somewhere even though some of these things might feel like they’re more efficient at Right. Value. Yeah.

Jacqueline Brodnitzki: You know, what we’re helping leaders and their teams think about is how do we leverage AI to make better strategic decisions. Mhmm. And so how are we working with it? And, therefore, how are we changing our mindsets and behaviors to, to use AI and then to lead through it. That’s sort of where we’re seeing it being used. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Rachel Cossar: I mean and there’s such a way to include it and have it enhanced as we said earlier. Right? So lots I I think I I don’t know what that big unlock is, but I think it’s gonna have to be alignment, like, organizational alignment around how they’re going to, leverage AI for its strengths while also developing the humans who are supposed to be the ones who are, you know, still leading and and driving the the real decisions. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Jacqueline Brodnitzki: And, you know, I’m just thinking, like, from a disclosure perspective. You know, do we know we’re dealing with a bot, or are we dealing with a person? And where is the ethical responsibility there? And yeah. Yeah. So that’ll be interesting to see.

Rachel Cossar: You know, before we hopped on, Jacqueline, you and I had kinda touched on this a little bit. But as facilitators, you know, coaches, trainers, executive advisors, etcetera, this whole the intersection between, again, the the human facet of the work and now this tech enabled one is, like, glaring. Right? You can’t really ignore it. So I get I I get asked by facilitators all the time, like, how do I use AI and what’s the right way to use it and but then there’s I always notice there’s a struggle there too where they’re like, I don’t want to jeopardize my living with this AI that might be more convenient, you know, like, than I so what advice do you have for other individuals in your role who may be feeling overwhelmed by, you know, having to grapple with AI?

Jacqueline Brodnitzki: I think, you know, identify tasks that that we do that could be time saving with the use of AI. And so, you know, just that consolidating a report, maybe, doing some research, but then verifying. So I think it’s starting to play with it and ask it questions and ask colleagues. You know, how are you using it? What have you found that’s interesting? Some of the things I’ve shared are things that I’ve learned from my colleagues, Scott Weigart and Andy Atkins. And, and then most importantly, verify all output. And don’t use it for something that you don’t know how to do yourself. Yeah. Right. Because you have to make sure that what it comes up with is what you would have come up with had you looked at it. Something that you what you would have done or better. And, so it always requires an overlay of your intelligence. And then I guess, lastly, I’d recommend, you know, partner with firms like Virtual Sapiens or BTS to, you know, who have developed these kinds of tools and these ways of working that can help, help you. I know we were talking about coaches and facilitators, but also leaders and organizations who can help us master difficult conversations and and deliver feedback, objective feedback. Yeah. Yeah. No. Absolutely.

Rachel Cossar: I think just starting to play around with it is such a good point and then not being afraid to ask ask the questions, ask AI questions, or ask peers questions. You know, I think I think, you know, to your point earlier where you’re like, I’m an office. Like, I think I think we all are. How could we not be? Right? I mean, certainly, maybe some of the people who are developing the models themselves. But in terms of the applications of AI, I think that’s where most of the questions sit in terms of what’s possible and how we develop best practices that will allow enough freedom to use it and get work done and not get bogged down in, like, fear. Right. Right? But then, of course, while also making sure that there are guardrails. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Jacqueline Brodnitzki: It’s fun times. Yeah. It’s really crazy. Fascinating. It’s really really fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. Good for you for leaning in, though. It’s so it’s so great. Well, thank you.

Rachel Cossar: Thank you. It’s fun. Yeah. Awesome. Well, Jacqueline, thank you so much for joining us. This was a lovely conversation, you know, full of really, approachable, you know, resonant information for other people who are in a similar position, or aspiring to be in a position like yours. So any, you know, final comments for our audience today?

Jacqueline Brodnitzki: I don’t know that I have any final comments. No. Except thank you, Rachel. It’s just such a pleasure to work with you. You are fascinating. And, and I I guess just try to embrace it and think about I’ve had friends even share really weird ways that they’ve engaged with AI and asking questions that are, just you wouldn’t think that AI would would be able to provide you with an insightful conversation about or an insightful answer about. So I think, just trying it and then remembering that it is AI. Yep.

Rachel Cossar: It is not, you know, not your, not your coach, not your counselor, not, you know, your therapist. I think that’s really important too.

Jacqueline Brodnitzki: Just keeping remembering what it is and thinking about it as a useful tool, not, something that replaces human contact and yeah. Absolutely.

Rachel Cossar: Honest, honest answer and very, very valuable. So on that note, thank you again so much. Thanks to our audience for tuning in as always, and, we’ll see you next time. Yeah. Thank you. Bye, Rachel. Bye.